ICB level 3 diploma in computerised bookkeeping - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Jane · Veteran Member

ICB level 3 diploma in computerised bookkeeping

Alison · Senior Member

Hi Jane

You are organised getting the past paper. I never bothered just got the actual exam convinced it would be like the level 2 but a bit harder. Was not expecting the manual questions. Luckily I had to look into health and safety and data protection with a social group I was on a committee off and the social group committee meetings there had been a lot of discussion on this subject with many different view points I was able to answer the question for the level 3.

Would say internet is a great resource for learning about health and safety and data protection (that is where the social group found most of it's information).

Alison

Wella · Expert

Hi Jane

I did the exam in February and did not have a Health & Safety question but did have a Data Protection question (which is listed in the syllabus - first item). From memory H&S was covered in level II.

What really threw me a curve ball, was the scenario I had was for a manufacturing company (Maclay & Sons), which basically required the production of a Manufacturing P&L account. None of the course work I did covered creating one in Sage and there is no chart of accounts that creates one in Sage Instant Accounts (fortunately M,P&L accounts are covered in the level III manual coursework, so I applied the same principles to create a custom chart of accounts). It took me most of the two week window to fathom out and create something that resembled a Manufacturing Account.

I would definately suggest you have a look at maufacturing accounts.

No one was more surprised than me when I passed 100%

Bill

Jane · Veteran Member

Thanks Alison

I'll do some searches on the questions asked - although most of it is common sense you are always wondering what the examiner is looking for.

Jane

Jane · Veteran Member

Well done Bill on 100% and thanks for the advise on Manufacturing accounts.

I've checked back on my course work for level 2 but Health and Safety was not touched - a little poor in the light that it is as you say in the syllabus.

Jane

BackOfficeGroup · Guru

Bill

You never said you got 100%, well done you!

Jane

If you have the past paper, you can use the chart of accounts in that paper for the exam.

P

Jane · Veteran Member

Hi Bill

Looks as if I may have the same paper you had. Think I can sort through the manufacturing chart of accounts ok. My only confusion is how to allocate opening balances as the text indicates that some costs are split between factory and general but this is not always reflected in the opening balances provided, plus do you set opening balances for fixed assets as NBV or cost and then put an opening balance for depreciation.

I personally think the information given is a little vague - so think that it is probable that however you do it will be ok as long as the end result is the same and you show you understand how to apply all the principles. But still very confusing when you sit down and try to work out what is the best way to approach. I fully expect to start and restart this exam a few times until I'm happy with it.

So all in all an even bigger well done on your 100%

Wella · Expert

Hi Jane

I found the questions a bit vague too (as with most of the ICB exams and assignments) and I wasn't confident my answers were what they were expecting (another reason it took nearly the full two weeks). I finally decided, as I was running out of time, that they were going to get MY answers. What I did was send a cover letter with the print out pages showing any manual calculations and an explanantion of MY interpretation of the question.

- Just seen your thread on another post, which basically answers your questions, split the depreciation, wages and H&L, creating nominal accounts for factory and general.

As for the the fixed assets, I used the cost values given at the back of the question paper and the accumulated depreciation on the TB and I showed the NBV only on the BS

Bill

-- Edited by Wella on Monday 26th of October 2009 04:39:12 PM

Jane · Veteran Member

Thanks Bill

Think I will have fun working my way through this as I agree there is a lot open to interpretation, will use your advise and send a note outlining how I have interpreted the question at each stage.

Have already asked P about the following but maybe you can advise what you did with the opening balance for motor expenses. Did you split is between factory and general as per depreciation - I would expect to do this in the real world but not sure if the examiner if the examiner would be looking for this as there is no mention of a split?

Jane

Wella · Expert

Sorry Jane

We are getting our threads crossed!!

Just amended my last while you were adding yours. Have another look at my amended reply.

With regard to motor expenses I put 100% into general overheads, again I would say it's interpretation but they were very distinct in the Apportion of Expenses about what was split and it only showed MV depreciation having a split

Bill

Jane · Veteran Member

Thanks Bill

That helps.

J

juniebug65 · Member

Hi Bill
Im hopin gyou will see this post soon, im new to this forum but have been a member of ICB for over a year an have passed levels 1 an 2 manual an computerised exams plus the sage exam so far, i ve just got level 3 computerised paper an has confused me....level 3 was covered in my course an decided to go for it...i did buy a past mock exam paper for level 3 an that just made it worse...
possibly the same paper as you an its asking to enter opening balances which are at the back...ie, nominal ledger, sales an purchase ledger...most of the paper seems to be common sense but its the opening balances i am having trouble with....it seems im stuck at the first hurdle...can you give me any ideas....id certainly appreciate it
many thanks
June

juniebug65 · Member

hi
just to correct what i wrote above....

**the level 3 i have not covered in my coursework but decided to go for the whole lot **

June

Jane · Veteran Member

Hi June

Just picked this up and thought I would try and help.

In sage go to nominal ledger, select the nominal code you want to enter an opening balance for, click on record (on the top tool bar) - in the nominal record box that comes up top left hand corner you will see a box for balance, click on here and enter your opening balance then save.

Hope this helps
Jane

juniebug65 · Member

Hi Jane
thanks for replying.....that really helps ......for short answer questions...did you hand write them or type them in word an print it out ?
other than that, i think i ve now worked most of the work out
thanks for your help i appreciate it
June

Wella · Expert

Hi June

Just read your post

Not quite sure what it is you are having a problem with, can you explain a bit more

For all the non computerised question I used MS Word and if necessary embedded an Excel sheet (mainly to use neat columns with no borders).

Speak soon

Bill

Jane · Veteran Member

Hi June

Like Bill I used Excel and Word.

Jane

juniebug65 · Member

Hi Bill
i was referring to the opening balances that were given in the paper ( i think i have the same paper u had looking back on your previous threads) but i ve kind of worked them out ok.....the exam paper seemed to be back to front with all the information an tasks....
section 2 was what i was asking about....wether to hand write the answers or type the answers into word an print it out
thanks for getting back to me..
an to Jane, thanks for replying ....i appreciate all advice an help.....

June

juniebug65 · Member

Hi
in the level 3 computerised exam, did anyone find they had to make new accounts in the nominal ledger from the opening balances....i found i had to do a few new ones

June

juniebug65 · Member

anyone who did maclay & sons paper....did you get confused on the gain/loss on disposal of fixed asset question because that one has thrown me

why do they put the papers tasks an notes all over the place
can anyone help???

june

LaShel Bookkeeping · Veteran Member

Hello Jane

Let me know if you still need a copy of any IAB papers. I took this course last year along with payroll then started teaching it. Let me know if you need any copies & Ill e-mail you some, no problems..

Jane · Veteran Member

Thanks Lisa

I took the exam end of last year so no longer require it - currently studying for ICB payroll so if you have anything that you may think would be useful for this I would be greatful.

Thanks
Jane

Ann-marie · Senior Member

Hello,

I have just booked my level III in computerised bookkeeping to arrive this weekend - fingers crossed it will be straight forward - I'm a bit nervous about this one even through the mock past paper went well.

Ann-marie

Neil · Senior Member

Hi Ann-marie

I'll be following your progress with interest - I'd like to do this fairly soon. Please let us know how it went and any pointers you can pass on those of us following in your footsteps.

Good luck.
Neil

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi
I too have just received my Level III and it is the Maclay & Sons scenario. I am confused on loads of things at the moment - the first thou, did you make just one nominal account for Factory Overheads and one for General Expenses or one for say Factory wages, General Overhead wages, factory heat & light, etc etc

I too am stuck on the chart of accounts which is giving me heaps of stress !

Shirley

Neil · Senior Member

Hi Shirley

Not sure I'll have the right answer for you but I have been studying manufacturing and trading accounts in Level III Manual where the overheads for each part of the business are both divided by type and apportioned according to the notes.

I imagine that if you were to try to generate a similar report using software you'd have to create separate accounts for each of the factory costs, wages, rent, heating for example. Without the separate accounts, how else could you create a detailed M, T, P & L account? Your factory wages also need to be separated from other factory expenses to determine the Prime Cost, don't they?

Waiting for a more experienced answer but I think more accounts rather than fewer is the answer.

Cheers
Neil

-- Edited by Neil on Tuesday 16th of March 2010 12:22:23 PM

Wella · Expert

Hi Shirley

Have to be a bit wary of how to answer, as this is your exam assignment. I have made some comments earlier in this post

Basically Neil is on the right track. It took me about a day to do the basic stuff and the rest of the two weeks to create a custom chart of accounts for a manufacturing business. Each task develops the BS, MTP&L and the TB as you go.

Sorry I can't be more specific

Bill

-- Edited by Wella on Tuesday 16th of March 2010 12:34:48 PM

-- Edited by Wella on Tuesday 16th of March 2010 12:36:26 PM

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi
Thank you both and yes it does help.
I know you can't tell me too much as it is an exam. I am just frustrated that this hasn't been covered in my course something I may well take up with Ideal Schools.

I shall carry on and try and work everything out !

Appreciate all the comments though.

Shirley

Neil · Senior Member

Out of interest, Shirley. Have you studied Level III Manual? I haven't done either exam but I have the impression that the Level III exams are very similar except that one, obviously, involves using Accounting Software. Certainly, the ICB syllabus is the same for both qualifications.

Cheers
Neil

Ann-marie · Senior Member

Hi,

I have also got level III which i got over the weekend to complete. I'm about to have a look at it this evening so fingers crossed it will be ok :)

Ann-marie

littlebookkeeper · Senior Member

Good luck everyone!

I did this exam a month ago and surprisingly got 100% so it can't be that bad! The mock exam I got (wyde manufacturing) was much more unclear and the questions more ambiguous. In fact I did appallingly on that one when I self marked it!

I typed up all my journals in word and I also made sure I listed any assumptions where I thought it wasn't 100% clear what they wanted.

Carole

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi Neil

Yes I have gone through the Level III manual - really struggled with it though..... I need to re do the whole course again I think before trying the exam.
I don't feel the coursework I have (Ideal School) shows much about manufacturing accounts, there is only a small section on it, so I have been trawling the web for help - I think I have my chart of accounts now (although I am not that confident I have it right !).

Good Luck Ann-marie - hope you are finding it easier than me !

Shirley

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi
I am struggling with the concept of the cheque received for Bad Debt. My initial thought was to raise an invoice - as the VAT would have been re-claimed. But then I saw that it said about posting the journals for the payment received.

Having spent loads of time researching this.... it seems I need to do a journal to do

DB debtors account
CR bad debt provision
DB Cash Account
CR Debtors account

I cannot get me head around this though, because it will leave me with a credit balance on bad debt provision.

I know that I cannot get the answer directly but a hint as to whether I am flying off on a wrong tangent would be appreciated

regards

Shirley

Wella · Expert

Hi Shirley

Although they are in the same Task, you need to treat them as two seperate events. I think you are trying to make them work as one.

I think what Neil meant in his question was, have you done ICB Manual Bookkeeping III?

Bill

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi Bill

I have gone through the course for Level III - late last year. It doesn't cover this type of scenario though.

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi Bill

Sorry - clicked on post before I meant too !

I am not dealing with the provision of bad debt yet - is that what you meant ?
I am thinking now perhaps to record a journal to bring in the money as "other income" and include the VAT nominal - which would leave the debt provision account out of it.

Shirley

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi

Forget the question - I HAVE FOUND MY BRAIN !!!

Thanks anyway.

Regards

Shirley

Wella · Expert

Hi Shirley.

I have been through all my coursework materials looking for a reference to Bad Debt Recovered Level I to III and although there is a reference to writing off a bad debt, I cannot find one for Bad Debt Recovery (was only a quick look through and may have missed it).

If you haven't already got a copy of Frank Wood's Bookkeeping and Accounting ISBN 0-273-68548-1 it is certainly worth trying to get a copy (the one I quoted is 6th edition but there is now a later edition) if you have time. It covers all the issues you are struggling with. It was the only additional learning material I used in addition to the Ideal Schools material and it filled in a lot of blanks and explained some concepts slightly differently, which helped me understand better some of the areas I struggled with.

You are getting there but you need to consider what happened when the debt was originally written off.

Bill

-- Edited by Wella on Thursday 18th of March 2010 12:50:07 PM

Wella · Expert

Don't know what happened there,

Your 12:15 reply has only just appeared on my screen.
Glad the old grey matter has kicked in. I sense a Eureka moment

Bill

-- Edited by Wella on Thursday 18th of March 2010 12:54:44 PM

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi Bill

Thanks for the post - I have sussed it - as you say there is no mention of bad debt recovery in the cousework but I have finally found the information I needed to sort it out.

Tricky question though when it is not covered in the coursework.

I will obviously (under the new rules) have to take the Level III manual exam and so will get the book that you have mentioned and see if that helps. I will then try a mock exam first.

Regards

Shirley

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi

Just got your last post !!!!

Eureka Lives OK !!

Shirley

Neil · Senior Member

Shirley

When the Bad Debt is recovered within the same financial year, it is DR the Debtors Account and CR Bad Debts. The Debtors account is then cleared by DR Bank and CR Debtors Account as a normal receipt.

The Bad Debt Provision account is not the same as the Bad Debts account since it is simply a contingency fund to anticipate bad debts. The Bad Debt Provision account would be used to clear the Bad Debts account but it is only debited by allocating funds, not by debt recovery.

Cheers
Neil

-- Edited by Neil on Thursday 18th of March 2010 01:50:33 PM

Wella · Expert

Hi Neil

In this scenario the bad debt was from a previous year.

Bill

Neil · Senior Member

OK, Bill

In that case, it is CR a Bad Debt Recovered account, DR the debtor's account. Then CR the debtor's account to clear it and DR Bank. Since the debt was written off in a previous y/e it would be additional income.

Cheers
Neil

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi

Thanks to you all

I sussed the answer that Neil gave. So thanks guys

Regards

Shirley smile

pammyj · Veteran Member

Hi All,

I am looking to do this exam and looking at a home course through NEC as i can pay with tesco deals. Does anyone have a copy of this exam I can try so I can have a practice and see if this is the exam I should go for? They say I have a choice of ICB LEVEL 2, (sorry not 3)IAB LEVEL 3 DIPLOMA OR C&G PITMANS LEVEL 1.

Would be grateful if anyone could advise which is the best one to do and if they have a mock I could try please?

smartin · Veteran Member

Hi

Well I have finally finished it all and posted it off today - all I can do now is keep my little pinkies crossed.

Regards

Shirley

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

You'll be fine Shirley.

Now try and forget it until you get the results.

good luck,

Shaun.

Neil · Senior Member

Good luck, Shirley.

Fingers crossed.

Neil

Wella · Expert

Shirley

Just like to add my best wishes along with the others.
Good luck, crossed all my fingers as usual

Bill