Thank you so much Shaun!

Thanks for the link and I read almost all the posts comes with it. I now have a much clear picture about the rules and restrictions of ACCA, even I think there are still some grey area that still need to be clarified by ACCA regarding what a bookkeeper can and can't do while as being a ACCA student at the same time.

For family matters, I need to have flexible working hours and plus I always wanted to have my own business. I think I will resign ACCA for now and concentrate on my ICB studies to be a qualified bookkeeper, since this is the quickest way and I really do not want any trouble. Maybe when my boy gets older then I could pick up ACCA again if I am allowed. Now if I may ask for one more question: If I resign ACCA now, am I permitted to rejoin the association as a new student in the near future? (I guess I am just too greedy)

I now have resigned my new job (after only one day! It is amazing what a parent can do for their child). I only want to concentrate on my studies and to get things going more efficiently.

You are so helpful, really appreciated. (I think this forum and the people here is my best discovery this year!)

Anna

Hi Shaun,

I have read lots of your other posts here and I always read with a smile - obviously you have got great sense of humor.

I think I made my choice so quickly without any hesitation is because I am standing on the start point here, and yes you are right, such decision would be very hard if I was in the middle of passing the papers.

To be honest, after reading the debate posts about rules with ACCA, I just feel that as a large professional body, all the ACCA worries about is not to get into any serious trouble which could cause by its students - this is the key of their restriction rules to students. They made such rules without realizing this could along bring the negative impacts. But I think they have to keep it this way so therefore to protect their excellent reputations in the field and manage such large number of students, I mean all kinds of students good and bad. However I still admire ACCA and think this is a great qualification to achieve, I wish I could be in the studies as far as you are since you are so close now, I am sure you will get there fine.

My little boy is only 16 months old but I already miss the time when he was a little baby...it is not easy, but there is lots of fun too. Anyway, thanks for the comfort about his studying bits, I always thought things could get easier when he grows older but it seems it's the other way round...have to re-think a plan B perhaps?! But I don't think I will give up ACCA though, I will figure out a way to do it somehow.

I had a very exciting week last week: Monday Tuesday - interview; Wednesday - pass level I exam;Thursday - excited and started a new job; Friday - resigned the new job and organize children's party at weekend... isn't life wonderful to live:)

Good luck with your studies, I am sure you will feel everything is worth for it once you pass all the papers and stand as a proud accountant! And your boy will be impressed too!

Anna

Hi Steve,

not a lot of time at the moment but I'll pad thjis out more later.

I think that we're slightly at cross purposes here.

It's the services that a PQ ACCA is allowed to offer as a bookkeeper, not whether or not they can work as a bookkeeper.

ACCA have no problem with you having dual memberships but you are still restricted in the services that you can offer to the basics :

Bookkeeping to trial balance,
Payroll
VAT

And according to other correspondence with ACCA you cannot register with HMRC as an agent.

The conversation was never in relation to the ACCA practice licence for which one needs three years (two in some limited circumstances) applicable post qualification work under a suitably qualified accountant.

As I said, I fill this out properly after the school run but for now, ACCA don't seem to have told you anything that isn't in regulation 8.

Talk in a bit,

Shaun.

Hi Shaun,

Before one wishing to progress from ICB (or what have you) achieves a full ACCA status, he must be at some point a part qualified. As he walks towards a full ACCA status, he does so silently while still practicing with his ICB practice provisions without claiming practice rights from ACCA.

Except you are saying that as a member ICB or IAB, you are not allowed to progress higher for an advance qualification such as ACCA?

It is like having a driver's licence for you car which enables you to drive freely; and you intend to go a step further for a truck driver's licence. DVLA would never have a problem with you for going for a truck driving lesson so long as you dont jump into a truck and start driving whilst you are still learning, and claim you are driving cos you think you can drive well without a truck licence. While you may be learning how to drive a truck, you have absolutely no problems whatsoever driving your car for which you have licence to.

The only aspect I disagree with you is the fact that you said that ACCA students holding practice licences from other bodies are limited. Ofcourse ICB licence holders are naturally limited by the nature of their professional curriculum which only allows them to do things you have listed previously. If an ICB member sticks with the provisions of his licence and training, he is absolutely fine even though he still studies ACCA.

What ACCA frowns at is when you claim to offer public services solely or jointly under her while you are still her student. They dont and cannot restrict what ICB allows me to do simply because I am their student when in fact I dont claim my right to practice as being given by ACCA or parade myself to the public as ACCA licenced practitioner.

I hate this restrictions but that's just the way it is.

My kindest regards.

Hi Steve,

Sorry, don't think that you are reading my posts right :

You said : Except you are saying that as a member ICB or IAB, you are not allowed to progress higher for an advance qualification such as ACCA?

I said : ACCA have no problem with you having dual memberships but you are still restricted in the services that you can offer to the basics

The problem is not that you cannot be a member of the ICB in fact many ACCA students are members of the ICB (I was for quite a while) but the services that you can offer are restricted by your ACCA membership.

Take the example of ICB members who register with HMRC to file clients returns. As an ACCA student as GinnyBee was informed directly by the ACCA you are no allowed to be registed as an agent with HMRC so there's one situation where ACCA membership is restricting services that can be offered as a member of the ICB.

Nothing that I've said has ever indicated that the services offered would be under the banner of ACCA membership. That's just a given that you can make no reference to your student status.

The whole conversation relates to the the restrictions placed on ACCA students who have dual memberships not being able to perform all of the tasks permitted of ICB members who do not have dual memberships.

Regulation 8 is one of those that cannot be dipped into but must be viewed in its entirety.

To review (taken from the original post):

(2) Permitted activities of ACCA students

(a) ACCA students of the Association may not claim to be members of the Association, nor may they be, or hold themselves out to be, in public practice, or a partner, director or controller of a firm or a member of a limited liability partnership which carries on public practice. ACCA students are, however, permitted to provide basic bookkeeping services for reward, either directly to the public or for an accountant, provided that they do not refer to their studentship or potential membership of the Association. Such service may be provided by the ACCA student acting in a self-employed capacity, or as an employee. Basic book-keeping services are defined as:

(i) The recording of basic accounting data up to and including the preparation of accounting records to trial balance stage

(aa) bank accounts
(bb) cash
(cc) sales ledger and purchase ledger

(ii) Payroll

(aa) wages
(bb) PAYE, National Insurance deductions

(iii) VAT or its equivalent.

(b) Any accountancy services, other than basic book-keeping services, can only be provided for reward by an ACCA student working for, and under the supervision of, a person who, in the opinion of Council, is suitably qualified and/or suitably experienced. The ACCA student may undertake such work either as an employee or as a self-employed person.

(c) The provision of basic book-keeping services directly to the public cannot constitute approved accountancy experience, for the purpose of regulation 3(a)(ii). However, basic book-keeping and other accountancy work undertaken under supervision may constitute approved accountancy experience.

(d) An ACCA student or affiliate who wishes to provide basic book-keeping services may obtain or seek such work by direct approaches to existing or prospective clients by mail or any other means unless prohibited by law in the country in which the student operates and subject to the requirements in paragraphs (e) and (f) below.

(e) An ACCA student may inform the public of his book-keeping services by means of advertising, or other forms of promotion, subject to the general requirement that the medium should not, in the opinion of Council, reflect adversely on the ACCA student, the Association or the accountancy profession, nor should the advertisement or promotion material, in the opinion of Council:

(i) as to content or presentation, bring the Association into disrepute or bring discredit to the ACCA student, firm or the accountancy profession;

(ii) discredit the services offered by others whether by claiming superiority for the ACCA students services or otherwise;

(iii) contain comparisons with the services offered by others;

(iv) be misleading, either directly or by implication;

(v) fall short of the requirements of the Advertising Standards Authority as to legality, decency, honesty and truthfulness.

(f) Advertisements and other promotional material may refer to the basis on which fees are calculated, or to hourly or other charging rates, provided that the information given is not misleading.

(g) Where ACCA students provide services pursuant to the above rules, they are subject to the same rules of professional conduct which apply to members who provide such services.

(h) Regulations 8(2)(a)(g) do not apply to ACCA students:

(i) who are members of one or more of the UK or Irish Institutes of Chartered Accountants, The Chartered Institute of Management Accountants or The Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accounting and who hold practising certificates or the equivalent status from such bodies; or

(ii) who are authorised for appointment as company auditor under Section 25 of the Companies Act 1989; or

(iii) who are resident outside the United Kingdom, Jersey, Guernsey and Dependencies, the Isle of Man and the Republic of Ireland, and hold a professional accountancy qualification which confers the right to practise in their country of residence.

ACCA students falling within these categories are permitted to engage in public practice (although, in respect of category (iii), in their country of residence only) provided that they describe themselves only as members of the professional bodies to which they belong (if any) and not as students of the Association.

Note that 2(a) alone supports your arguement but in the context of the whole regulation 8 a different picture emerges. We cannot cherry pick the parts of a regulation that we wish to adhere to.

Hope that this makes my position clearer.

kind regards,

Shaun.

I don't know If I'm replying on this a bit late - but I could really do with a bit off advice from you shamus.

I thought I had everything planned out but it seems you do not value the ACCA route that much?

Basically I am 17, not got the best GCSE's because I had a hard time at school, I did get 4 GCSE's A-C's and three of them consist of Maths, English and Science. I did a business course for a year, I got a BTEC certificate for that as I didn't complete the full course due to wanting to change my route - go into accounting - But I got distinction in that.

I am now going on to study level two and three this September - that is a year long commitment. My plan then was to get an apprenticeship therefore gaining experience and still studying in order to complete my level four, this would take just over a year.
Providing I got them qualifications which I would expect to I was then planning on moving out of home and becoming an accountants assistant I think it is? Hopefully earning anything over £20000, I would expect to commit myself to doing this for three years, for these three years I would be studying the ACCA in my own time and would hope to be ACCA qualified by that time.

Therefore I would be ACCA qualified, AAT qualified(over-shadowed by the ACCA of course) BTEC Business certificate, four GCSE's (three in main subjects) and then also have four years accounting experience.

Please Please Please could you tell me if you think this is a good route and what I should be aiming to do for the next 5 years really.
Am I seeing things to black and white?
Plus im hoping for a salary of £15000 as an apprentice
£22000 as an accountants assistant
And £40000+ once fully ACCA qualified (5 years down the line).

Hi Ben,

welcome to the forum.

All of the major debates on here relate to people taking up studing ACCA whilst working as bookkeepers in their own businesses. This combination causes major issues because of the ACCA's rules on what their students are allowed to do.

Lets clear that up in relation to your circumstances for starters. You are not looking at self employment. You are looking at an apprenticship so the ACCA restrictions of regulation 8 do not apply to you.

You open by stating "you do not value the ACCA route that much".

On that one you couldn't be further from the truth. I actually regard the ACCA qualification very, very highly. They are my supervisory body although I have still not completed all of the exams yet. The qualification to my mind is second to none and if you can get past all of the experience requirements gaining it will be a big step in your career aspirations.

Right, now down to specifics.

You are talking about two years to complete AAT. From your timesscales I am assuming that you are considering taking on AAT and ACCA at the same time. Thats actually not a bad plan although I would try to tie in the ACCA papers to the AAT ones that you are studying for.

For example when you are doing the AAT tax papers do ACCA paper F6 Taxation. When doing company accounts do ACCA paper F5 Corporate reporting. When doing costing and budgets do paper F9
etc.

Level III AAT knowledge should help towards all of the ACCA papers however, after paper F3 you will notice a quantum gap between AAT and ACCA level studies.

On the ACCA front you state five years but you should set your plans based on 5-10 years as the complexity of th exams increases the further that you get in. Completing up to paper F9 is the equivalent of a BSc. but papers P1 to P7 are at MSc level.

I'm sure that you've noticed that 50% is a pass mark for an exam however, have you also noticed that some exams only have around 28% of students gaining a pass mark! Even if you go into the exams knowing the subject the time pressure on getting the answers down on paper in 3 hours (plus 15 minutes reading time) is intense.

Ok, onto your apprenticship. You need to ensure that the company employing you is qualified in the eye's of the ACCA so the you can get your PER signed off. Have a look on the ACCA website at the PER requirements and ensure before taking a position that all aspects will be covered during your apprenticship. Note that once qualified as ACCA you will still need to do a further two years post qualification in a training position in order to gain a practice certificate if yiu wanted to set up on your own.

On the money front. I think that your figures are slightly out. Here are the figures from the Hayes salary survey for Midlands based employee's. (Note that the figures that you quote are achievable in greater London but you would need to factor into your plans travel and / or accomodation in the capital).

A level Trainee (12000 to 16000)
Graduate trainee (15000 to 21000)
AAT Studier (21000 to 24000)
Assistant Accountant (23000 to 26000)
PQ ACCA/CIMA 1-2 years exp (19000 to 24000)
PQ ACCA/CIMA 3-4 years exp (23000 to 27000)
PQ ACCA/CIMA 5+ years exp (27000 to 32000)

Source, Hayes survey as given in PQ Magazine. March 2011.

Note that there is a difference between the role of accounts assistant and assistant accountant, the latter basically being an accountant in everything but name. The former being more towards the bookkeeping skills side of things.

There will of course be local variations and you should not pass up the right apprenticship merely because your salary demands are too high for the role. Always remember that there are more people wanting to be aprentices than there are roles available so taking a loss leader may pay dividends in the longer term.

There will be potential for greater income if you decide to open your own practice once fully qualified with your two years post qualification experience. 

Hope that this helps to set your expectations at a more realistic level for your journey towards a fantastic qualification to have under your belt.

Please feel free to ask any specific follow up questions that I will be happy to answer.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Hi Ben,

I'm really not wanting to burst your bubble but ACCA is a very significant commitment in your life and it's well respected largely due to the large number of candidates that give up and drop out along the way.

If you feel that you can do ACCA in 2-3 years and command £50k at the end of that then go for it and I wish you the very best of luck. Don't forget to keep us all informed how your doing.

Your plan in your second post seems more realistic than your first. (with the exception that achieving ACCA will take longer than you expect it to).

2 years to level 4 AAT (I think Achievable)

3 years further to ACCA (even taking examptions from AAT I think that this is pushing it)

4 years further to gain experience (quite a generous post qualification period)

So in 9 years time you may well, taking into account inflation as well as your marketability as a chartered certified accountant be taking in excess of £50k per year.

(I think that you should at least consider moveing 2 of the 4 years to gaining the ACCA qualification though. So work to 2+5+2 rather than 2+3+4.).

Good luck in your studies.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Hi Ben

Wouldn't you be better going for an Accountancy Apprenticeship now, this would give you employment at around £100 per week at your age and day release to study to L3, you could then go on to Advanced Apprenticeship which will take you to L4. Your local Careers Office, Connexions or whatever it's called in your area should be able to help with this, ie find you a placement.

Hi Sheila,

I think that Ben is actually looking for an apprenticship (see his first message) but I fear that he may have listened to the careers advisor at school and I think his expectations are a little higher than reality with prove (no knowledge or experience to a £50k account role at 23!).

However, I think that it's good that a 17 year old has taken the time to plan this and I really am fully behind his efforts even if my posts do not quite come across that way.

On the careers advisor thing, when I was in the sixth form I was already around six foot but because I had horses the careers advisor suggested maybe thinking about a career as a jockey!

I very much understand your point that I am not going to be the most employable however I will have all the abilities to be? So I would be very valuable to maybe another company in helping them deal with finances. 

Are you saying Im wrong in the study time lines Ive gave in order to achieve the qualifications?

Please note I am not getting defensive I am just trying to argue what Im seeing so that I can gain your views as you are involved. :) 

By the way I am not being naive. All the information I have gathered are from tutors and people in this position. I am currently working at Tesco and on a very good wage, therefore an apprenticeship now would not benefit me at all.

My tutors expect their students to gain the AAT level 4 in two years. I don't know if it has changed since you was at school but level 2 & 3 are done in one year. Level four is done in 13/14 months, so taking into consideration summer holidays It would be December 2013.
 
One student at my college currently doing an apprenticeship is on £18000. So I am being far from naive to suggest I will be on £12000 +.
The norm from surveys is between £12000 - £16000.

I found your response quiet rude to suggest I have nothing backing up my plans.
Almost everywhere I read people say ACCA can be completed in 3 years and 2 years if you really push it.

Everywhere I read a certified chartered accountant is on around £50000. So again I am being far from naive to expect £40000+. If one is willing to work for £30000 then that is their loss as the majority are earning much more. If I am expected to have 5 years accounting experience then I will already have 4 of those 5 by the time I plan to be qualified.

None of what I have said suggests I am going to be spot on and earn the top end of the salary but I am also going on the averages and placing the minimum wage around in my mind.

What would be the point in me expecting to be earning less than the minimum? Surely I would then have very little ambition and also be rather stupid.

I am currently at the age where I can focus on my work and not have other things to concerntrate on, like looking after children. Therefore I can push myself to get these qualifications in the time periods I have stated.

Why would I aim to get somewhere that offers a low salary?

It seems very much like you do not like the idea of someone young succeeding and being on the same salary as an elder adult with children?

Please don't say that my plans have come from thin air when I am infact basing it on many things I have read.

And also believe me someone coming out of University at this current time is finding it much harder to find jobs than others. 

This is to Shelia by the way.

If you have solid grounds to go on that you can tell me I cant and therefore ADVISE me I should do something else then so be it.

Shaun - I have not listened to careers adivsors once. I don't believe they are any good just as much as you. Please not I am not expecting at 23 to be on £50000, but I would expect to be on £35000 + with the fact Ill be gaining maybe a few more years experience in order to be on a higher wage. And then hopefully progress on to a much bigger business maybe in the city.

Please reply both of you, just don't think my plans are coming from thin air.  

Hi Ben

I don't think your plans are coming from thin air, you have researched what you want to do and where you see yourself and I have no doubt that eventually you will achieve these aims, however, like Shaun I feel the time in which you feel you can gain ACCA is optimistic as are your salary expectations at 23 with little experience. With AAT at level 4 you should be able to gain an apprenticeship somewhere on the salary scale you identify (£12,000 to £16,000) but even if you manage to gain ACCA in 3 years you will only have that 3 years practical experience and you will still need to be in a supervised role not being able to practice independently. Employers look at post qualification experience rather than training experience when taking on new employees and it is the post qualification experience that counts where salaries are concerned.

I have been a tutor and it is in the interests of the tutor to make the future appear as rosy as possible for the student as without students there would be no jobs for tutors. Teaching these days, particularly in post 16, is all about "bums on seats".

Please don't be discouraged as a career in accountancy like any other profession can be very lucrative, but, as in the other professions it takes time before the higher rewards come.

Would agree that to expect +£40k for a newly qualified ACCA at age of 23 is a bit pie in the sky.  But good luck Ben.

Would say that an ACCA qualified person (post qualified about 5 - 10 years) could expect to earn about £30k - £35k.  Would say you could only expect to be earning £40k once you are in your late 30s/early 40s.

Whenever you read these surveys of what people earn you have to ask yourself who are they asking as it is certainly no one i have ever come across other than; people who are partners/directors in accounting firms or businesses in industry.

Well i had big plans to pay my mortgage off and retire all in one year but i must say that you lot have well and truly burst my bubble and piddled on my bonfire. (mind you my dreams may come true but only in my eightieth year)

-- Edited by Spamkebab on Monday 1st of August 2011 04:31:24 PM

Ha Shaun, if i earned 30k i'd be skint and i'd never see my children anyway. Well that's what's happened on 20k so i can predict the outcome of Dad earning more. But seriously (to Ben) i'm 38 years old, have owned and managed a small business, held supervisory positions and now want to break into accounts and the only way i can see it happening is if start at purchase ledger level earning around 16k a year.

-- Edited by Spamkebab on Monday 1st of August 2011 04:48:53 PM

Thanks for all the replies. Its good that people are giving me their honest opinions other than bullshitting me to keep me in education.

Please note again I was not expecting to be on 50k at 23, but we can all dream.

I have set my sights high but I believe if you don't then you settle for below average.
I plan to try and do what I can. I was also told today of someone who is a chartered accountant around my area who is on 50k+
Maybe Ill be that next lucky one?

I personally just want to be able to get into a position where I am on 40k+ on an almost 9 to 5.
Also I have not decided I would dedicate my life to chartered accounting but I thought it would be a very, very good qualification to have and give me good opportunities.

Please can you guys tell me, lets say I was to have 5 years experience, what you think I would then be on as a chartered accountant?
I may also gain an extra business related qualification but then, do i really want to be studying my whole life?

I just want to get the ACCA qualification under my belt and be in a position to expect 40k+ a year. My three options im seeing at the moment is through becoming a long time chartered accountant, going into management(bearing in mind I did well in my business studies) or owning my own business(maybe when Im 40+ for that one though, Want to have a life first. :)

But please reply again and just give me advise and answer the above question :)

Thanks for the reply again. 

Do you believe 30k? is a good living salary then? And do you thing the route I am taking is a good route?

:) 

I plan to live in Milton Keynes, I do not think it is to bad for those sort of things. Bare in mind Im good at saving and dont plan to have kids anytime in the near future :) 

I do find that it is hard to say what is a good salary, my family has coped well and had nice stuff on under 12k for years whereas my uncle who is on 50k says how poor he/they are. And our house is much nicer. It is down to the individual I suppose. 

Thanks alot :)

So Mark you feel the best option is to go into a finance department in a large company?
What are the salaries looking at with this?
I think that is quiet easy to get into once I have achieved the ACCA qualification isnt it?

How do you feel a single male living on his own would fair on a 25 grand gross salary in thier early twenties?

I'm at the stage where I can make the decisions on what route I want to take, what do you suggest?

Thanks. 

Hi Mark,

you asked about the ACCA exam and people droipping out.

taking Birmingham as an example (but assuming that this scenario is repeated accross all cities/countries).

taking the first ACCA paper the ACCA had to hire two huge halls in Birmingham for the thousand plus candidates.

Each paper after that there were less and less people sitting until at the later stages several papers are sat in the same, smaller centre at the same time.

The burn rate of students is high with a lot seeming to drop the qualification when going from the fundamentals to the skills level papers.

Fundamentals level papers are very much AAT level questions and two hour papers.

When people hit the skills level at paper F4 it's a quantum leap in what is required of students (and the papers move up to 3 hours). Many seem to struggle an attempt at this level but over the next six papers at every sitting there are fewer and fewer cars in the car park on exam days.... Conversely the quality of the cars improves dramatically so seems obvious that the survivors are getting better salaries.

It seems that by the time one gets to the advanced papers most of those who will fall out of the qualification already have and the numbers stabilise as you jump those last few hurdles. However, by this stage you've developed that distant stare that seems to be shared by shell shocked Vietnam vets and ACCA PQ's.

In Bens casegoing via AAT he would join up with exemptions so the quantum leap would come in going from AAT to ACCA level papers rather than the leap happening within the qualification... I've spoken with many students in the past and I'm still shocked at how many only look at old exam papers for F1 or F2 when signing up. Personally I regard F4 as the first ACCA paper and anything prior to that just prep work to ensure that student have the basic skills to study accountancy.

You can actually take four papers at each sitting which with Bens timescales I think is what he's looking at. However, I got some good advice once from a tutor freind (I self study rather than do courses).

"You can either fail four exams or stand a chance of passing two. Only reason ACCA let you take four is that they get to charge you again for the retakes!".

I think that there is a certain element of truth to that although it's very simplistic. There are papers that complement each other and it helps if you take them together (such as corporate reporting and Audit). But there are some papers such as corporate law that should either be taken alone or only with resits from previous failures.

I've actually read on the ACCA website that they state 3-4 years to pass the qualification. I think that if one gets exemptions from the first 3 papers (leaving 11) works hard and allows for maybe 5 resits in there 4 years is actually possible at two papers per sitting.

One line that Ben did have in his posts was about this being a 9 to 5 job.... Wonder how many people reading this thread fell off their seats laughing at that one (when they read it at work in the early hours of the morning).

My last serious girlfreind was Chartered and I seldom got to see her as it seemed that time spent with boyfreinds had to be regarded as non chargeable downtime! Seemed that we had most of our relationship on the phone at around two in the morning when I (working in high finance) would be just finishing up and she would still be alone in the office tearing her hair out whilst her staff were all snuggled in their beds.... And we were still both back at work by 08:00 the next day...

That must be one of the reasons why accountants very often marry accountants as besides clients and staff (for the good of the business neither of which should generally be considered relationship material) other accountants are the only people that you actually ever get to see!

9 to 5... Yer, right! (lol)

talk later Mark,

all the best,

Shaun.

Hi Ben,

when in business the bank takes you a lot more seriously when you have a serious qualification behind you.

Every day people go into the bank with no idea about finance and wonder why the bank will not support their ventures.

People with accountancy qualifications are taken a lot more seriously.

Many managers started out with accountancy qualifications. As Mark says the ACCA qualification opens a lot of doors to which I would just like to add that a lot of them are not directly related to accountancy (i.e. practice) roles.

Just because you are a manager or business owner does not mean that you cannot also be ACCA.... If I had my way it would actually be compulsory as there are so many business owners out there who are great at what the do but just don't have the first clue about how to run a business.

Having ACCA behind you will mean you will understand how to turn your business into something profitable.

Also, now your getting onto this subject a good line to take forwards with you.

"Nobody ever got rich working for someone else!".

By the way, on the ACCA instead of university thing. You do realise that once you've passed the first nine papers (provided I believe that you actually sat the first three and didn't claim them as exemptions) you can actually do a project in order to get a degree from Oxford Brookes the ACCA's affiliated university so you come away with a degree even before you have the full ACCA qualification!

The thinking behind that is that the first nine papers of ACCA are (at least) the equivalent of doing a BSc.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Was that written in Yoda?

Methinks i need more coffee!