What would you do? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Denise · Senior Member

What would you do?

steve12 · Veteran Member

Hi,
If you're registered for MLR with HMRC then you don't need to pay all the fees to become a member of ICB. Infact my view would be that the benefits are not worth paying all the money that they are asking for. I have said before that the ICB are raking in all the money whilst the bookkeepers are struggling to make even a modest income in many cases.

Provided you are registered with HMRC you can do bookkeeping work for people and you don't need to be a member of ICB. Regarding qualifications , you're right, you can say you have bookkeeping qualifications and if necessary show you're potential client your certificate. You will probably find that many potential clients have never heard of ICB and are just interested in having their books properly taken care of. Also, if you wanted to gain further qualifications at a later date remember that there are a number of very good bookkeeping qualifications awarded by various providers, not just ICB.

Good luck,

Stephen.

Alison · Senior Member

I don't reckon that ICB will continue to be raking in the money. I asked a polite question why the jobs vacancies were not available when there was no mention of maintenance on the website and they phoned me up and was really rude. I have looked into changing to IAB and when I asked for exemptions was told that it was not there normal policy but because they are being asked a lot for this they can do. Must mean that the ICB have upset some other members as well.

Alison

Terri · Senior Member

Alison wrote:

I don't reckon that ICB will continue to be raking in the money. I asked a polite question why the jobs vacancies were not available when there was no mention of maintenance on the website and they phoned me up and was really rude. I have looked into changing to IAB and when I asked for exemptions was told that it was not there normal policy but because they are being asked a lot for this they can do. Must mean that the ICB have upset some other members as well.

Alison

Wow, I must admit, reading that I do feel a little worried. If I can't turn to then fir support then who can I turn to? I thought that they were going to be very useful to me once I was a fully qualified member and I was looking forward to getting the access to view their vacancy page. I was going to do the level 3 manual and payroll with them next but I think that I might switch to AAT now instead. Makes you wonder what we pay our membership fees for eh? I have already paid them about £100.

Terri

Alison · Senior Member

HI Terri

The day I did not get access at all to the jobs they had nothing about maintenance.

This is the email I sent

I went onto your website to check the job vacancies part which I look at a few times a week and all I could get access to was adding a job vacancy. Please could you let me know why I no longer have access to the job vacancies as this part of the website was the one of the main reason I pay my membership and practising certificate each year, without this access to job vacancies I will have to reconsider when my membership is up for renewal whether I renew or whether to change to another bookkeeping institute.

They phoned me up and had a go at me because of this.

Now only got part access, what they are trying to make members do is pay for the letters for each exam at cost of £15 each letter and without these you cannot see majority of the jobs now. I am not wanting to pay £15 per letters because it is each year.

Also they took £66 payment for my practising certificate in April and have not yet sent it to me despite me emailing them about non receipt.

Alison

Terri · Senior Member

I am very surprised to hear this. I thought that being who they were, the largest bookkeeping institute in the world, they would be very supportive and professional at all times. Thank you for the post, I think that if did pass my exam (which I should find out next month....hopefully) , I will think twice now before paying for full membership. I paid a few months ago to upgrade from a student member to an affliliate member and I regret it now, as I have received nothing for my money other than a certificate and a new membership card?

Terri

Marky65 · Guru

Hi
I am in a very similar position as Terri so this thread has rapidly become very interesting in light of the additional comments but I would just offer a word of caution about the AAT, I thought that they were more of an accountancy body not a bookkeeping one. So if you are looking to progress you career or business in accountancy then fine I would say go for it but if you want to stay in and only offer bookkeepeing and payroll services they may not be the body required. I don't have the answer as to who might be because I had joined the ICB for the same reasons as the rest of you.
Has anyone looked at or heard anything about the IAB.

Regards
Mark

Alison · Senior Member

HI

I have looked into IAB.

In my opinion they seem more professional then ICB.

I emailed them about exemptions and they responded quickly and though not normally allowing for ICB exemptions they will because the number of ICB members asking and they may change to have it as policy for exemptions for ICB.

I emailed again to ask about practising certificate and they quickly replied with the price. With ICB I have found that they are not so good at replying to enquiries.

I am really wanting to change over but unfortunately difficult unless I can get refund for the practising certicate with ICB which I paid for in April and have not received, if ICB don't get this certificate to me in 7 days I will be getting my credit card company and making a claim back.

When I first joined ICB in September 2007 they were very helpful then but found that they have been very unprofessional in recent months, not replying to enquiries and when they do being incredibly rude. I hope that ICB goes bankrupt and get their comeuppance.

Alison

Denise · Senior Member

Hi,

Thanks for your responses to this. After Steves comment that I should not have to pay full price to become a member as I am already registered for ML I am going to give ICB a ring on Monday to find out exactly what it will cost. I think though that I may leave it for this year and after reading what happened to Alison I might not bother at all. Have they not responded at all to your emails about the missing certificate Alison?

Terri, I never bothered to become an affiliate because I did not see the point of paying extra money when you still had to pass level 2 to obtain a practising certificate. Maybe it won't cost you as much when you become an associate as you have already paid the affiliate fee.

Looking at the IAB website it seems their exams are more expensive, but their member fees are a similar price to the ICB. As far as I can tell it does not look like they charge you extra for letters of each exam you have passed - I could be wrong. I also can't find how much a practising certificate is .

Denise

Terri · Senior Member

Denise

I do regret paying to be an affiliate member but I only did it because after I passed my level 1 manual, I only had a month left of my student yearly membership so I thought that I would pay a years membership as an affiliate rather than a student as it felt like it was a progression. Looking back it has been a waste of money but like you say, it may mean less money off of my full membership fee (if I decide to go ahead). I think that I will definately look into the IAB. I was planning to study payroll with the ICB after finishing my computerised level 2, but think that I am going to wait and see if the ICB pull their fingers out and make it worth while being a member of them.

Terri

Alison · Senior Member

HI

On 26th May ICB claimed that they had sent it out 7th April and it must have got lost in the post. They said they would re-issue. I know Royal Mail have a reputation but I don't think even from the offices of ICB which I believe in somewhere in London to Bradford would take Royal Mail take 24 days. They are not replying to any emails.

They were very rude to me after the polite request I copied that into the thread yesterday saying that there was lots of benefits of membership and was wrong to say that my company the only reason I was with them was because of the job vacancies and they did not understand when I told them self employed bookkeepers and bookkeeping companies all have different needs for their business and that an institute of bookkeepers should not tell that self employed bookkeeper or bookkeeping company what is important for them.

Think the fact that they becamse a recognised body for Money Laundering have changed the Institute and made them money grabbing rather then being a nice institute who supports its members.

Heres hoping that someone at IAB who are getting all these ICB members contacting them inform the ICB that they are upsetting their members at great speed and maybe they will buck their ideas up or someone at the ICB reads these threads and realise that they are doing wrong to their members. I have private messaged another member on another forum whose membership runs out in July, she is considering changing to when I pointed out that the job vacancies (even though the day I tried and had no access that the ICB were doing maintenance without any notification to members by email or on the site) but when they did come on that most you could not get on without paying for the extra letters after each exam which at £15 per exam per year is too much for most bookkeepers especially now the way the economic climate is.

Alison

Alison · Senior Member

HI

Forgot to say that still have not got the practising certificate and that if ICB do not correct this by next Friday then I will get credit card company to refund the payment as goods not supplied.

Alison

Chriss · Veteran Member

Hi eveyone, I found the AAT far more expensive than the ICB, there's also a lot more exams that you have to pass before you can become a full member, these cost £40 a paper and there are lot.

You can't pratice under the AAT until all the exams have been passed, for the intermediate certificate alone, which is level 3, there are 3 simulations and two exams, back in September last year it cost £101 to become a student member, this included an administraition fee of cause , and then each subsequent year £60, at the moment.

There are about 5 units for the level 4, these again consist of simulations & exams, all of which must be passed before finally you can become a qualified member.

When our tutor was asked about the benefits of being an AAT member his reply was, you get a magazine every month, AAT also charge for the use of the letters at the end of your name.

Mike · Veteran Member

Have to say that I would be a little disappointed if ex ICB members were to start being granted exemptions by the IAB, especially given that the IAB qualifications are far more rigorous and are also recognised by the QCA - which the ICB qualifications are not.

As for the IAB membership grades, there are three different levels, each with a different membership fee. If you are a fellow member (the highest grade available), the annual membership payment is £83.

The other good thing about the IAB is that they also have strong links with the Institute of Finiancial Accountants and other awarding bodies such as the Institute of Payroll Professionals who grant exemptions to holders of IAB qualifications, so you always have the option to progress beyond basic bookkeeping if you wish.

You'd need to speak to the IAB direct to get an idea of the range of benefits that are offered to members but I believe you do get access to a free 'technical' helpline on tax and insolvency matters and also get to benefit from discounted PI insurance. I'm not sure whether there is a jobs vacancy page for members though.

-- Edited by Mike on Saturday 20th of June 2009 10:20:34 AM

steve12 · Veteran Member

The ICB have a very effective and enticing website, certainly their marketing skills are very good for increasing their membership income from potential bookkeepers. But when it comes to the real benefits for professional bookkeepers such as expert advice that may be needed from time to time then it is not so good. It would be interesting for members to see their annual accounts regarding the income they are bringing in and how the money is used. Unfortunately, such information is not available. Also, as has already been mentioned, their qualifications are not recognised by the qualifications authority in the UK. However, both the IAB and AAT are both recognised and they are valued by industry and commerce. There are also other recognised bookkeeping qualifications that can be taken without having to pay student membership fees. I think bookkeepers and potential bookkeepers should think carefully before parting with their money because some of it is abit of a money racket as far as I can see.

Alison · Senior Member

I have finally received practising certificate with a lot of emails requesting this.

ICB claim that because they sent it out on 7th April and they have not had this returned in the post that I must have received it so that was why they were not sending out a replacement. I had not received it and it is more than likely if they still claiming they sent it out on 7th April that it had gone missing in the post. Can't believe an institute the size of ICB does not realise that Royal Mail can lose post and it is very unlikely that the item is returned to sender. The amount of post I have sent out in the past I have had several over the years gone missing in the post and think that only one time I had it sent back to me many months after I originally posted it.

Alison

Julie Dawn · Senior Member

I have just applied for my practising certificate, hopefully they will not lose mine!

farmergiles · Veteran Member

As an AAT student member may I point out that there are no restrictions to practising providing that you do not use the "AAT" letters or logo on your paperwork. You do have to be a student member to undergo the training and sit the exams, which get progresively more expensive the further up the ladder you go.
If you are not happy with the support that is offered by your current body, don't worry, I see the same complaints on the AAT website and I also hear the same complaints from ACCA, ACA, CIMA & CiPFA members.
There are also the OCR bookkeeping courses run by local colleges and these include Sage training as well. I was a level 1 book keeping tutor at Rotherham College. It is a basic course but it can get you started.
You do not need to hold a practising certificate from any body, providing that you don't use their identity in your advertising or on your paperwork. As long as you have registered with HMRC for MLR, registered for Data protection and have some form of professional indemnity insurance, you can set up as a book keeper or an accountant. The professions are not legally protected in the UK like they are trying to do in Ireland.

chellawson · Senior Member

farmergiles wrote:

There are also the OCR bookkeeping courses run by local colleges and these include Sage training as well. I was a level 1 book keeping tutor at Rotherham College. It is a basic course but it can get you started.
You do not need to hold a practising certificate from any body, providing that you don't use their identity in your advertising or on your paperwork. As long as you have registered with HMRC for MLR, registered for Data protection and have some form of professional indemnity insurance, you can set up as a book keeper or an accountant. The professions are not legally protected in the UK like they are trying to do in Ireland.

I completed my OCR bookkeeping course at college and am going to do the AAT in Sept. I am not going to register with any of the professional bodies as I feel they do not provide a good enough service for what they charge and they have so many clauses which to me all seem to be about getting more money out of ts students.

I am teaching myself payroll and will register with the legal side of things ie MLR etc, but anything else im not convinced.

Michelle

Denise · Senior Member

After much consideration I think, like Michelle, I might not register with any professional body either.

I am going to see how things go for me this year with regard to getting clients and whether or not they are interested in the fact that I am not registered with any governing body.

Only yesterday I went to see a client who wants me to update his manual system onto Sage Accounts, and carry on once a month once it's up to date. If I had been an Assosiate of the ICB I would have had to turn him down as they are a LTD company and I wouldn't have been qualified enough for them even though I have held bookkeeping positions with 2 Ltd companies before.

Denise

Mike · Veteran Member

Denise wrote:

After much consideration I think, like Michelle, I might not register with any professional body either.

I am going to see how things go for me this year with regard to getting clients and whether or not they are interested in the fact that I am not registered with any governing body.

Only yesterday I went to see a client who wants me to update his manual system onto Sage Accounts, and carry on once a month once it's up to date. If I had been an Assosiate of the ICB I would have had to turn him down as they are a LTD company and I wouldn't have been qualified enough for them even though I have held bookkeeping positions with 2 Ltd companies before.

Denise

I'm not that familiar with ICB rules and am surprised that they stipulate the types of clients you can and cannot offer your services to.

Just out of interest, under their guidelines what level do you need to be qualified to in order to be able deal with LTD companies' accounts?

Only thing I would say is that if you want to join ICB in the future, then I think your quals are only valid for 2 years after which you would be required to resit them

-- Edited by Mike on Sunday 28th of June 2009 11:13:24 AM

gerry · Senior Member

Hi, having read the forum concerning the ICB and an amount of problems people are having. I am concerned as to what to do for the best.

I was thinking of opening my own bookkeeping business and thought I should have the ICB qualifictions under my belt as I am only qualified by experience. Now I wonder if I should go down this route.

I need to study Sage and thought the ICB computerised course would be perfect.

Having read the thread, I am now unsure.

What is the best way to start?

steve12 · Veteran Member

Hi,

To be truthful having the ICB qualification will not make any difference in terms of getting clients. Your experience will be far more valuable. ICB in my experience as a professional bookkeeper is vastly over rated. If you want to be competent in basic bookkeeping then there are some good books that are very reasonably priced. If you want a bookkeeping qualification then OCR bookkeeping qualifications are highly valued and it's less expensive than the ICB route. Also, nearly all local colleges will provide part time courses and have information about OCR.

Best of luck,

Steve.

gerry · Senior Member

Thank you for this advice Steve, I think you are right and will look down other avenues ratehr than ICB.

Advice greatfully received

Alison · Senior Member

ICB are saying that I have to spend best part of a day having my money laundering regulations checked out. I run a retail shop and cannot do this during the day and they say that they only work day times. I believe that the chief executive is picking on me because I asked about the job vacancies part of the website and explained that was the reason I paid membership and would not renew my membership without the vacancies being a part of membership. I said to the person that they must proove that I was selected at random to be checked for money laundering and not been picked because the chief executive was bullying me. I told them that if they have proof that they must do it after 6pm when shop closed and I cannot do this before that. Has anyone else been told that they need to be checked for money laundering regulation.

Alison