New Crunchers package launched - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

BobHarper · Guru

New Crunchers package launched

kjmcculloch · Guru

Interesting development Bob. Although I never thought you'd take this route.

Alison · Senior Member

HI Bob

I am assuming that if you have gone down this route you have changed your mind about having job vacancies at £15 per hour for bookkeepers.

One thing I did find with your site that there is no indication (unless I have not looked at the right section) on the costs of the two different types of franchise. Would say that this is quite important as some people want to know costs before contacting to see whether it fits in with their budgets/business plan etc.

Thanks

Alison

BobHarper · Guru

Alison - prices are on the Website but like everything I'll be taking on board feedback. I'll see if I can make the costs clearer and be more explicit about what you get.

Where we don't have a franchisee and win work we'll employ people to do the work. But, I'm unsure about using bookkeepers who are registered in business because they could have a conflict of interest.

Kris - it's early days but the feedback we've had so far is very positive. This development gives the market choice, means franchisees have more money to invest in promotion and gives franchisees the option to upgrade after they get going.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Hi Bob,

Don't get me wrong, I can see exactly why you have done it. I just didn't see it as the direction you were going.

I know we spoke about the Enterprise franchise, I really think the lifestyle franchise will work well for you. But like I said to you, all I see that you offer different is the software thats so shrouded in mystery I don't know whether it's the best thing since double entry or a crappy version of VT. And for me thats one of the only reasons I wouldn't join crunchers. It's an expensive risk.

Kris

BobHarper · Guru

Kris - I havent made an issue of everything included in Crunchers because our discussions did not get that far. However, I will be putting up some more detailed information on the franchise Website about what is included in Crunchers. For now here are a few questions:

Do you have a book to help promote and position your brand with key influencers in the area? Do you have press releases going out this week? How good if your Social Networking Strategy? Do you know your back link strategy can be improved? Perhaps your pricing could be more effective? How do you know your client management system improve your productivity by 25% or more? Could your selling be better? Can you make money renting software to businesses that want to do their own bookkeeping? Have you got ready made seminars you can deliver? How much marketing collateral do you have to help promote your business? Who would help you out if you were ill? Do you have a team of people who are constantly working to improve everything in your business?

The software is a key part of the business model and were not going to give away what has taken us years to learn and develop. However, we will put a few videos up so people can get a feel for it. For now, rest assured the way we have built the software bookkeepers are not needed to do bookkeeping and this gives scalability and profitability.

As youll know from the E-Myth; there are three key parts of any business and the business performance is determined by the system marketing, operations and finance. Most bookkeepers are using a finance system in an operational capacity and theres a cost compared to using a system that is purpose built for operations.

Let me ask you a question, how long would it take you to do bank reconciliations for three months if there are 150 transactions per month? We can get that done in less than five minutes and that's just one of many features.

steve99.9 · Veteran Member

Bob - It seems to me that the crunchers franchise model does not confront what I see as the main obstacle to my own success in the bookkeeping world.

I am sure many of my fellow contributors to this site will indentify with what follows:-

Why did I choose to become a bookkeeper ??? Answer, BECAUSE I AM NOT A SALESMAN!!!. I am not good with people, I dont want to "SELL" anything to anybody NOT NOW...NOT NEXT WEEK...NOT NEXT YEAR...NOT EVER!!!!!

Dont get me wrong, I expect to work, and work damn hard to build a solid client base, and I know that 'selling yourself ' is part of that process, but my point is this, Crunchers, (IMO) should be complementing the strengths of those who are good with figures by taking the strain in the departments where they are less effective.

If Crunchers were offering a back office Sales and Marketing Operation, manned by Sales Professionals who know and enjoy what they are doing and who were supporting me by finding regular good quality qualified leads for me to convert, then that is something that for me personally really would be worth joining.

However whilst ever Crunchers want me to hand over large chunks of money in return for something they are absolutely 100% guaranteed to fail at, i.e turning me into a successful and confident Salesman and a Marketeer, Im afraid youre' going to be one short.

Oh Also whilst youve' got me at it Why, if this is such a good opportunity do I have to fork out seventy five quid to learn about it.!!!! Come on Bob, scrap the expensive sarnies and give us the facts. - Free.

Regards

Steve

BobHarper · Guru

Steve I dont understand your post.

On one hand you say I AM NOT A SALESMAN and you say you are not good with people and even I dont want to SELL anything to anybody NOT NOW...NOT NEXT WEEK...NOT NEXT YEAR...NOT EVER!!!!! Then you suggest Crunchers offer a back office operation which finds you regular good quality qualified leads to convert. Isnt converting selling?

By the way, we have a SureStart programme for bookkeepers who want extra support. This is for people who recognise the lifetime and business value created from building a business.

The £75 charge is there for a number of reasons, mainly because the content is so valuable. One of the things Ill cover is how to make up to £50 an hour from bookkeeping. Have a think how many hours you have left in your working life and what this is worth to you.

-- Edited by BobHarper on Monday 21st of September 2009 06:20:04 PM

Marky65 · Guru

Hi Bob

Whilst I have no reason to doubt that the content is so valuable I too question why charge for it. I have been on events run by the hugely successful Jonathan Jay of www.successtrackonline.com which are completely free are held in superb hotel and conference venues and all the delgates have to pay for is their accommodation. The content from these free marketing weekends is superb, you come away from them with so much more knowledge and there isn't a single sales pitch for his other products all weekend.

Regards

Mark

steve99.9 · Veteran Member

Hi Bob

Let me try to clarify where I am coming from on the matter of selling.

Presumably (in most cases at least) the selling of the Crunchers concept would involve cold calling businesses to convince them that they need this service, even though they do not know they need it.

This process (for me) is a thankless task which needs specific skills (and dare I say, a thick skin) which I do not posess and have no interest in learning. Skills such as overcoming objections, hard selling the good points whilst steathily avoiding the negative aspects. These things are simply NOT ME.

If Crunchers could complete the entire sales function to the point where I just needed to do the bookkeeping work this of course (again from my point of view) would be 100% ideal.
However I am not naive enough to think that this would happen in most cases. Certainly if I ware engaging a bookkeeper for my business I would need to meet them to assess their cababilities and to see if they were someone I could work with. Hence my comment about "selling myself"

Regards

Steve

BobHarper · Guru

The debate about charging or not for seminars is an interesting one. These are some thoughts on the topic:

Charging reduces drop-out rates

Charging makes people value what you do which is consistent with Crunchers being a premium brand.

We are only interested in speaking with people who are serious about making money or building a business. We believe that these people will not have a problem with modest fee.

Paying for something makes people more likely to use what they have learned.

There are costs to promoting and hosting the event. We are only expecting a few people at each event and if we did not charge this would end up being covered by existing franchisees, which we dont think is fair.

There needs to be a positive relationship between Crunchers and franchisees when it comes to money. We have discovered over the years that some people just do not like paying for anything and we think it is best they do not come along in the first place because if they do want to join they will probably argue about the fees.

-- Edited by BobHarper on Tuesday 22nd of September 2009 09:16:52 PM

Alison · Senior Member

Would say if the seminar is to convince people to become a member of a franchise would say it unlikely people would be happy to part with their money if it is not for them. Would say would be more uptake if seminar was free because if it is not for them then not out of pocket if it is they have seen what it is all about and will become a member of a franchise. At the end of the day franchise costs enough on its own let alone charging to show people what it is about.

Alison

Rhoda · Member

hi all

hmm, very interesting!

Actually working, and just thought of logging in to check what going on here. i do not have time to read all the messages but i will certainly come back, i will be back later.

Will this be suitable for us Newbie in the industry?

catch up with you all later!!

regards to you all

BobHarper · Guru

Alison I understand. The day is not a pitch for Crunchers but a seminar on how to make money from bookkeeping. Delegates are free to go and do it themselves or contact us about joining Crunchers.

Here are the bullet points:

The mindset of an entrepreneur

How to earn £50 an hour from bookkeeping

How to market your bookkeeping business

Selling skills for professional bookkeepers

Effective pricing for maximum profit.

I can not sell Crunchers on the day because this is done one-to-one. However, I will guarantee that you will find it useful or Ill refund the seminar fee. And, if you join Crunchers I will deduct the fee from the joining fee so you do not pay twice - is that fair?

Rhoda age and experience are not as important as attitude. Interestingly, we are looking at a new package for non-qualified bookkeepers.

BobHarper · Guru

Steve - so you want Crunchers to do the marketing, selling and present you as the after sale has been made. Is that right?

We do not offer this option at the moment. If we did I think our management fee would be higher.

Bearing in mind your attitude to sales and marketing, would it be better for one of our franchisees consider employing you as a bookkeeper or the manager of their business?

By the way, good sales and marketing works so that you know the clients right for you before you attend a meeting. You need one key element to do that and I'll be explianing what that is on the day.

-- Edited by BobHarper on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 06:38:32 AM

steve99.9 · Veteran Member

Hi Bob

Yes, put simply, that would be ideal and yes, if I was to fit into a Crunchers franchise as it stands, it would probably be as a Manager/Bookkeeper,

From your reply to Alison it has become clearer that this is more of a Sales Tutorial Seminar albeit aimed specifically at bookkeepers, and this is fine for those who wish to pursue that route.
However your opening post did suggest to me that the purpose of the seminar was to sell the new package.

In summary, If your idea is to teach me to be a crack salesman in order that I become mega successful so that you can take a monthly percentage of my earnings - it is not for me. There are many hundred of Sales training courses I could take to do this without having the need to keep on paying every month.

If however you were providing me with regular work at £50 per hour (In Yorkshire... Today... Yes Please!!!) this would be an extremely valuable service to me, and one for which I would have no problem at all in paying ongoing fees for. (In fact I would go so far as to say I would still be interested even if the hourly rate were subtantially more modest.)

Dont get me wrong Bob, I am not trying to rubbish your franchise model. and I do wish you well with it. I am just trying to point out that as a regular reader of this forum, the worries and concerns expressed almost on a daily basis, such as " How do I get work" "How much should I charge" "whats the best method of advertising" " How do I approach new clients" etc. lead me to believe that many people feel as I do, that a franchise which addressed these issues for us and allowed us bookkeepers to do what we do best ie "Do the Books" rather than "Selling" would be a blessed and most welcome relief.

Something maybe for you to think about?

Regards

Steve

BobHarper · Guru

Steve - it is not a sales seminar although sales skills play an important role and yes we are running these seminars as part of our marketing strategy. But, we are not selling at the seminar.

Yes, there are lots of sales training seminars you could attend without paying a monthly fee to Crunchers but that doesnt mean the monthly fee isnt great value. I am not sure if you are aware but as part of the monthly fee a Cruncher can rent bookkeeping software to clients to do their own bookkeeping. You only need 10 users to cover the monthly fee.

I cannot offer you work as a bookkeeper or a bookkeeper manager at £50 an hour. In this role you would be an employee of a franchisee with your salary being set by the local rate.

I know that how to get work and how to price it are common questions and Crunchers are very strong in both areas. And, we offer a Lifestyle franchise for people who want to do the books themselves as well as the Enterprise option for people who want to build and run a business and get others to do the bookkeeping for them.