Trial Balance - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Cath · Member

Trial Balance

Wella · Expert

Hi Cath

It's a bit difficult to work out exactly whats happening but I'll try and help from what you've said

You need to use the account balances after you have posted the transactions from and to the various accounts. Remember that a c/d amount on a credit side becomes a debit b/d figure for the next month and vise versa, so use the b/d figures on your TB.

A transfers from personal savings is capital introduced and should be credited to the Capital account, not to income/ takings. (It may require a Journal entry)

The bank outgoings to petty cash and paypal are just transfers, which will decrease the bank (CR) and increase petty cash and paypal (DR)
The payment into the savings account should be posted to a Drawings account (I have assumed that the savings accounts are personal not business accounts) as it is money going out of the business back to the owner (I, again, have made an assumption that this relates to a sole trader)

With regard to the petty cash payments, you will have posted CR amounts from the petty cash account and Dr to Postage etc. It is only the account balances you need to worry about.

Do you have opening balances for the accounts from the previous year? As this will be your starting point.

If this has helped or you need to know more let us know.

Bill

orange · Member

Hi

This is all basic stuff and unfortunately you can't learn bookkeeping from a book. I would suggest that you get experience working for someone before you try to do it on a self employed basis. To help I would suggest you pass this client onto a bookkeeper who is capable of doing the work.

E

Alison · Senior Member

Orange

I think you should keep your comments to yourself if you can't say anything positive.

I am assuming orange you don't have any work yourself if you have time to be negative on forums to others, maybe you are jealous of the OP because they have a client.

Cath, a book that I bought to read when I get to my own limited company first year end because we are not having an accountants and doing all own accounts for companies house, CT600 etc and I wanted an easy to understand book for reassurrance that I am doing everything right is How to Understand Accounts which is for Sole Traders, Partners and Limited Company's it is by David Rouse in the lawpack range of books isbn 978 1905261581 and another one that looks very imformative and easy to understand is DK Essential Managers Understanding accounts by Stephen Brookson ISBN 9780751312164. Also one that a college course recommended to me Business Accounts by David Cox ISBN-13: 978-1872962634. Would say if you need to do final accounts for a Limited Company the best one is the one by David Rouse as has all the different formats that may be needed ie different format for small or medium companies etc.

Alison

Cath · Member

Thanks Brian and Alison - I couldn't see the woods for the trees! I have looked at a few of my entries and jigged them about and I am now only £200 out which is probably one of these transfers my client likes to do.

I thought this forum was for like minded people to help others, and don't really feel any one needs to be so negative. I'm sure Orange didn't know it all when he/she first started.

Thanks again for your positive comments and help.

Cath

stephen72 · Senior Member

Hi,
I would agree with Alison and would like to say that it is difficult when you are just starting out as it is very daunting and there are a lot of issues that you come across in real life that are not covered in courses and exams and the only way to find out about the solution to these problems is to ask questions until you have gained experience.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Hi Cath,

I can only echo Stephen and Alison. The courses are one thing, but they are very sterile, they don't really prepare you for the real world. I also think that Business Accounts by David Cox is a great book, and well worth the money (though you might want to try ebay, I got mine for £8).

I wouldn't worry too much about Orange, there are always people like that who want to knock everyone down to big themselves up.

Good Luck!

Kris

Davey · Veteran Member

Hello Cath for EVERY DEBIT ENTRY THERE IS A CORRESPONDING CREDIT ENTRY IN DOUBLE ENTRY BOOKKEEPING.

So have a look at your clients books and try to put the information together a bit at a time
ie Debit Cash or Bank Credit Takings

Credit Capital ( Money transferred from his savings account
if it does not relate to Takings.

Remember any transfers taken out of the business which relates to items of a personal nature
NON BUSINESS put down as drawings.

lor · Guru

Why is orange always so rude... it isn't helping anyone!

Alison · Senior Member

Hopefully Orange will get bored after a while and go onto another forum instead.

Alison

orange · Member

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just being honest. I'm pretty sure there are others who have the same views as myself but don't post them. I should be able to post my opinion the same as everyone else. You shouldn't be set up as a self employed bookkeeper without having the background and experience to do it, I agree that sites like this are here to help but surely there must be a base point of knowledge before hand.

Anyway I'm not jealous that someone has a client or am I knocking someone to make me feel big. My only issue is that of client care and quality service, if you don't believe in these things then continue to knock my opinion.

Alison · Senior Member

Orange

It is not necessarily what you are saying it is the way you are saying it, it comes across as rude and insulting so maybe you should think before you type or read it before submitting to check how it comes across to others.

Alison

Wella · Expert

Orange

We've been here before but I do understand where you are coming from with you view on experience over underpinning knowledge and I am not against you voicing your opinion. I think its more in the tone of your thread that is upsetting others, maybe being less blunt and more constructive might achieve a better response and keep dialogue going.

I do not disagree that experience is a useful tool to have in your arsenal but to me it means that it makes my job easier, it does not mean I do a less than professional job. I think you said it yourself, you have to believe in delivering client care and quality service. That's a matter of attitude not experience.

There is a maxim in the teaching that says:
I am told, I forget.
I am shown, I remember.
I do, I understand.

The more I do, the more I understand and I hope that never changes.

Bill

jpf · Member

I've never done any bokkeeping for anybody but on occasion have seen something asked on this forum and thought to myself - 'even I know the answer to that'. Very easy to be like that from the comfort of my chair. Same as I get all the answers to 'Who wants to be a millionaire' when I watch it on tv. Bet I would need all my lifelines to win £1,000 if I was in the chair! Similarly, when I worked as a surveyor and changed the type of work suddenly I was bothering colleagues with all sorts of questions due to lack of confidence.

I suggest that some of the questions asked which might seem basic knowledge to others are asked through slight lack of confidence and just to make sure and surely to do this IS attempting to give good service to clients and there can't be anything wrong with that. Often the person asking the question probably knows how they would deal with something but wants to make sure others would do the same. Personally I'm learning a lot from seeing what is being asked and what form answers take.

Jonathan

Alison · Senior Member

Orange

Having read your thread on introduction, you are not even a bookkeeper, this is a bookkeepers forum for bookkeepers, on your introduction you claim you are an accountant, so why don't you join an accountants forum and leave the bookkeepers to help each other as all you have done so far is offend bookkeepers.

Alison

bookkeepingtoindia · Newbie

I think you need to hire bookkeeper if you have bookkeeper so it's handling your all the accounting transaction records.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Orange,

I think your comment about experience is interesting, I have seen and heard this many times before. My view is that it's more about confidence than experience. Like Bill,I believe that as you do you learn, therefore experience is built from doing. Confidence is something you must have some of before you start.

Experience itself is really a catch 22, to get experience you need to do the work, to get the work many people believe you need experience. So how do you get it?

I believe self employment is the answer. I started with small sole traders, building confidence and moving on to larger and now to my first ltd company. I had no 'real' bookkeeping experience. I learned everything from a book, but I don't believe it makes me any less able.

I do sometimes see questions (not specifically on this forum) and think, 'oh dear' I agree we all need to learn though, and I may ask questions which to others seem elementary, thats the way of the world I'm afraid. No one can know everything.

One word of caution though, unless and until you understand the basics I don't believe you should be taking on paying clients. Any mistakes at this stage will ruin your reputation before you start, completely knock your confidence and may prove very costly for your client.

One thing Orange and I do agree on is Quality Customer Service.

Kris

Wella · Expert

bookkeepingtoindia wrote:

I think you need to hire bookkeeper if you have bookkeeper so it's handling your all the accounting transaction records.

Hi bookkeepingtoindia

Can I ask, are you connected to bookkeepingservices? I only ask as you both have very similar websites, with very similar content ( coincidently, you also share the same birthday except bookkeepingservices is a year older!)

semsley · Guru

I think your comment about experience is interesting, I have seen and heard this many times before. My view is that it's more about confidence than experience. Like Bill,I believe that as you do you learn, therefore experience is built from doing. Confidence is something you must have some of before you start.

Experience itself is really a catch 22, to get experience you need to do the work, to get the work many people believe you need experience. So how do you get it?

Perhaps experience could be gained from seeking employment in the field before taking on self-employment either through a permanent job (full or p/t) or through a temping agency the latter would give more experience of differing situations. Book-learning and qualifications have their place indeed without them we would not gain the knowledge but neither book-learning nor qualifications can mirror the "real world" and the situations one comes across therein.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Try getting that job with no experience.

Kris

semsley · Guru

kjmcculloch wrote:

Try getting that job with no experience.

Kris

Temping then is the way to go, you would get that and from there gain experience.

chellawson · Senior Member

semsley wrote:

kjmcculloch wrote:

Try getting that job with no experience.

Kris

Temping then is the way to go, you would get that and from there gain experience.

Even Temping work you will still struggle with no experience.

I am in the same position, Ive qualfied as a Bookkeeping and now studying my AAT.

I have had lots of interviews and it all comes down to experience so it is a bit of a catch 22, I have even registered with temping agencies and still the same problem.

Michelle.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Plus I'd need to give up my £20k salary. I don't think my family could survive on temping wages. The only thing for me was self employment, qualified but no experience.

Kris

chellawson · Senior Member

I agree, I had an interview planned for today after some confusion over the time with the MD the accounts clerk rang me this morning a we were chatting I Said I had no experience but had my qualification and was willing to learn and she said she had 10yrs experiance and no qualification. She said I was better of going self-employed to gain experience.

So thats the way im going to go, I had planned to go self employed anyway but thought a part time position was a good idea.

Ive even brought Sage 50 which was more expensive than I thought, so im committed know :)

Michelle

-- Edited by chellawson on Friday 6th of November 2009 11:04:39 AM

Alison · Senior Member

I would say if circumstances allow if no actual bookkeeping experience just qualifications best way is by being employed, if you find a company that has a large accounts department so you will work as a team then if you come across tasks that you are unsure how to complete working as a team you have the support and can learn on the job.

With self employment you are on your own, with no real support apart from the clients accountant but this would have to be kept to a minimum and very complicated matters not day to day bookkeeping as client would pay for that time of accountant and would not want to pay for the time for simple day to day bookkeeping matters.

Would say one way unexperienced bookkeepers could gain the experience alongside self employment is as part time accounts assistant in a large department where you working as a team and have the support.

Alison

Mike · Veteran Member

kjmcculloch wrote:

The only thing for me was self employment, qualified but no experience.

Kris

When you say qualified do you mean bookkeeping + AAT or just bookkeeping exams?

Alison wrote:

Would say one way unexperienced bookkeepers could gain the experience alongside self employment is as part time accounts assistant in a large department where you working as a team and have the support.

Alison,

I would say that you would struggle to obtain a job even as a part time accounts assistant without any practical experience, especially in the current climate

-- Edited by Mike on Friday 6th of November 2009 03:01:16 PM

Alison · Senior Member

I never realised it would be a struggle to get a job without practical experience.

I left school after GCSE's straight into a trainee account position, did not have any bookkeeping or accounting qualifications and got sent on an RSA course several months after I started, in the job was being taught 16 column trial balances and not the starting stuff of "T" Accounts that I got taught in the RSA course.

Admittedly this was 15 years ago but thought that people without experience could get accounts position jobs but maybe only paying minimum wage rather then the wage you can earn with experience.

Alison