A potential new client - is he dodgy? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

gerry · Senior Member

A potential new client - is he dodgy?

brog13 · Veteran Member

Hi Gerry

I should imagine most people reading this would be saying wooooww...........

So many questions.

OK, assuming he has done nothing wrong with the TV..............

Not done his accounts for four years? Is he even registered with HMRC? PAYE? NICS? Does he have employees?

What has his lovely man been doing? Organising his work - but how?

Car Sales? Financial Debt Management (what does THAT mean?), landlord? But can't read or write? Is he fulfilling his obligations as a landlord. Any sign of deposits being protected?

I would definitely wait until the accountants come back to you.

And if you suspect any dodgy dealings at all - report them. Don't wait until you are found out and get into the arena of being liable.

Good luck!
Babs

Amanda · Expert

Hi Gerry,

Wow that dosen't sound too good. I have one dodgy client although certainly not as bad as that and the accountant said its OK. But the accounts never balance due to lack of paperwork, loads of missing invoices, they never get given to me at the right time and there is still a large problem with his accounts from 2 years ago that only he can supply the answers to but has never given the accountant or me the info or relevant paperwork, and so it goes on, and on. disbelief

If it was me I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole and walk away. Plus my person has only got one business, yours has several. Has he appeared on Rogue traders at all???.....

Why hasn't the inland Rev caught up with him, or has he got a false name?

Why hasn't his lovely man been doing his bookkeeping if he organising him?

I was asked last year to sort the books out for a coffee shop, after a long conversation with plenty of alarm bells ringing and the fact that the bookkeeper has misterious dissappeared and didn't answer their calls, and they had failed to do a VAT return for a year, I said no, also she had to have them done within 2 weeks which was an impossible task at the time, as they were selling the business and the new owner to be wanted to look at the books!!!!

Sorry for long winded answer.
Hope that helps.
A x

-- Edited by Amanda on Monday 16th of November 2009 08:38:30 PM

gerry · Senior Member

Thank you, your answers do help.

In the past they had an ex tax inspector working for them, she did the books up to 2008 but the computer she worked on broke so the information cannot be obtained, I do not know why she didn't do the returns! Or maybe she did, would they know?

She also did accounts for other people, so they are registered as agents, the client does not understand why they get letters from the IR about being an agent but none for their own returns, they seem to be flying below the radar.

The lovely man is now trying to organise him but does not underdstand accounts, the reason I have this potential client is because they are another clients landlords and their invocing was incorrect which I highlighted.

The accountants will be speaking to them this week, so I think I will wait for their response before I make a decision but at the moment its not leaving me with a happy feeling.

Many thanks

Gerry

BobHarper · Guru

Keep a few things in mind:

1) There is a saying which goes "You are your client list" - imagine if all your clients were like this, how would you feel? If you would not be happy then why take one?

2) If you feel there are additional risks with the engagement make sure you reflect this in the price.

gerry · Senior Member

Bob, thank you, those are very good points.

I guess we all want sweet clients who are honest and legal but the truth is that there could be some dodgy ones out there.

What liability can a bookkeeper suffer in such cases and what measures can be taken to avoid this?

Gerry

BobHarper · Guru

Gerry - the risks could include being more exposed on MLR and the books not being correct because of poor quality information. This could result in a loss of reputation if the tax office do an inspection and point out the errors or an accountant picking them up.

Marky65 · Guru

This reminds me of the very first potential client I had an appointment with, he had an accountant who was in prison, hadn't done his books in a few years and hadn't submitted any returns to HMRC, and most the prior years records were missing. I took the decision at the meeting to walk away and not take him on. I wouldn't take the risk of taking on a client who had an accountant with a dubious background and I wouldn't have know what I was going to get into. It was hard to walk away and even though I am not busy now I would prefer to be this way and have a chance to build a business than have it spoilt by an association which wasn't of my doing.

Regards

Mark

Amanda · Expert

Hi,
I agree with Mark and Bob, sometimes although it may be nice to get a new client, we all have our reputations and carreers to consider.

Its better to be safe than sorry and there is nothing wrong with walking away.

It sounds even worse that an ex-tax inspector did the books but the computer has convienently broken, couldn't they give it to a Computer guy and retrieve the records. Ours broke a few years ago (I wasn't in business then) and we had loads of photos that unfortunately we hadn't back up but the computer guy manged to retrieve everything of the PC.

If you walk away at least you will sleep at night!!!

regards
A

gerry · Senior Member

Hi There

Thought I would give you an update on my decision.

Having lived with the idea for a week and not feeling any happier about it, I decided to walk away and spoke to the lovely man today to tell him.

In all honesty my instinct says its the right thing to do but I do feel a bit flat, like I've let them down and maybe lost myself a job.

The accountants I recommended said they would go along with my judgement and take them on if I was happy. I feel like I've lost them business too.

I thought I would be relieved. Is it normal to feel like this?

Gerry

BackOfficeGroup · Guru

Gerry

In business, things happen and they don't happen. You may feel a little deflated now but just think about what could have happened say in 6 months time and it puts you in a difficult situation - trust me, its better to be safe than take on a client who could be trouble.

We spend hours seeking new clients, but not all propective clients are the right ones. We must have the right to choose our clientele, who best suit us in what we do, not have to accept them because we can do the job they are looking for. There is a subtle difference.

P

Amanda · Expert

Hi Gerry,

Don't feel flat about it, if I was in you situation I would have done exactly the same.
Don't worry about letting them down, I'm sure they will find someone 'Dodgy' to take them on.
The Accountants won't think you've lost them business they will be probably pleased that you pointed out the pitfalls of this potential client before it was too late.

I had to turn down a payroll job last year (not a large one), and past him onto someone I knew, I was gutted I couldn't help him, but it has pushed me along into doing my AAT payroll, which I sit the level 2 in 2 weeks time. So something positive came out of it.

regards
A

gerry · Senior Member

Thank you for this. Your comments have helped me a lot.

I think it was because it was my first "turn down" that I felt a bit down. I am feeling better now and realise what a lucky escape I have had. I have since heard from a few people locally who have said to keep well away from this man.

Thank you very much for your comments.

Gerry

Bubsy · Veteran Member

Hi Gerry

I think you've done the right thing. The beauty of closing the door on one client is that it creates a space for the next right client. I think they call it the vaccum effect. When the right client comes your way you will look back and know you did the right thing.

Barbara

gerry · Senior Member

Thank you Barbara

And actually I have a potential client to visit tomorrow, how bizarre is that. This client needs his VAT return done before monday and we haven't even met yet.

My clients always seem to want everything done yesterday, is this normal for all clients?

Thank you all for your support, I find this forum a huge help and really appreciate all your comments.

gerry

BackOfficeGroup · Guru

gerry

I dont think I have ever met a client who are in the position of 'next month', its always 'by tomorrow' or 'needs to be in by the end of the month' ie 2 days time!!!

btw, well done on getting your foot in the door - I guess if you get this done he'll be happy to take you on.......

P

gerry · Senior Member

Thank you. Okay, I need to bear that in mind for any future clients. Nothing like a VAT return to spur someone on to find a bookkeeper.

This client was recommended to me by the man in the office next door to my main client, I also got another client from my main clients IT man. So it just goes to show that its word and mouth that helps.

Although, the dodgy client that I started off this topic is my main clients landlord, so I guess not all connections could be fruitfull!!!

Many thanks again

Gerry

BackOfficeGroup · Guru

I always believe word of mouth is such a good way of getting clients - advertising rarely works and I have only ever had 1 new client from ads and thats since 1991!!!

Its always the VAT that get delivered to you days before the end of the month thats its due - happens with a very good client each quarter.

P

BobHarper · Guru

Gerry - client management starts with your engagement process. If you do this well, clients will play your game! There is no need to build a portfolio of clients that need things done yesterday, it's a recipe for disaster.

Create a resource that educates prospects so they know how and why to be good clients. And, manage them with you price.