Which route? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

larry · Newbie

Which route?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Larry,

The ICB are moving the goal posts and the training companies haven't cottoned onto it yet.

To become AICB you must now take both the manual and computerised ICB level 2 exams. To become MICB you need to take both exams at level 3.

Up until now it was just level 1 manual then levels 2 & 3 manual or computerised. That's just changing from or to and.

ICB levels 2 and 3 use Sage Line 50. Some training companies throw in the ICB qualifications if you do their SAGE courses.

If I were you I would do a cheap course at a local college first to ensure that you feel comfortable with bookkeeping then look at training AAT or CAT.

Others on here will suggest different supervisory bodies and all of them have benefits and pitfalls.

CAPITAL = ASSETS - LIABILITIES

There you go. first lesson in bookkeeping and it was free.

Good luck and let me know if I can be any further help.

Shaun.

Nimac · Senior Member

Following on from this, i have been thinking about taking my training further. I am currently AICB(Comp) but not sure for how much longer according to recent posts!!

I am debating whether to go AAT or CAT.

Any advice from my learned colleagues?

Nigel.

BackOfficeGroup · Guru

and again this comes back to the old argument of qbe vs qualified!

do you really need to be qualified? I guess for those of us who have many many years of experience, the answer may be no but for those who are new to bookkeeping, I would recommend it, that is training not necessarily qualifications, but then it does all depend on what you want to do......

on the ICB subject, I think they will be raising the fees to compensate for the loss of members......!!

P

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi again P.

agreed, despite what training organisations keep telling people qualifications won't even get you an interview without experience. But of course, training companies are businesses and if they told people the truth 90% of their potential candidates wouldn't sign up.

At this level the advantage to qualification if you don't have the experience is that you can get Professional Indemnity Insurance. The small pint of the policies always has a one liner in there stating that you should hold a relevant qualification and / or have three years plus current relevant experience.

Maybe everyone thinking about bookkeeping should just read volumes 1 and 2 of Business Accounting by Woods and Sangster? If they come out the other end in less than four months thinking that they can do this then by all means invest in the courses. If they don't feel that it's making any sense or it's taking too long to get it then maybe it's not the right career path for them and all that they've lost is the price of two books (For new copies its about £65 for the pair off Amazon or £75 from elsewhere. A good post 2006 second hand version is probably all that's needed though).

I like your comment about fee's P. Its like local councils keep putting up business rates to compensate for the number of shops that are lying empty! Why are they lying empty? Because the business rates were too high.

Talk later,

Shaun.

P.S. I know P's good with the above but for any newbie's reading this. the reason that I state 2006 is that there haven't been any major changes to financial standards or the companies act since then.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Nigel,

AAT is definitely the one most people seem to go for.

Either that or CAT exempt you from the first three fundamentals papers for ACCA and I think that going via the AAT / CAT route you're more grounded in the mechanics of accountancy than the theory.

As far as I can see there's very little to choose between them so I think that the best advice that I could give is to take a look at the freely available exam papers of each of them and see which one feels right for you.

For information,

AAT has links to CIPFA, ICAEW, CIMA and ICAS.

CAT is part of the ACCA

Both bodies seem to treat their respective students well and with respect.

Good luck with whatever path you choose,

Shaun.

Nimac · Senior Member

Thanks Shamus

I'll get info on both and then decide.

larry · Newbie

If I was to go down the ATT route then, if I was to achieve the Certificate do you think that holding this would give me a chance of employment in bookkeeing in some capacity? And then work at the above levels further down the line? As cost wise, this would probably suit my circumstances more.

Also, I might add, when I say employed in a bookkeeping role. I don't mean a self employed bookkeeper, more along the lines of a trainee job, such as an accounts assistant or accounts clerk.

-- Edited by larry on Friday 8th of January 2010 06:53:32 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Larry,

AAT not ATT. AAT are Accounting Technicians, ATT are tax technicians and come a bit higher up the food chain (In accountancy there's a three letter acronym for everything!).

AAT are very well regarded but having AAT is no guarantee of employment as employers tend to be looking for experience as well.

Its a real conundrum getting a first job. Employers aren't interested if you don't have the qualifications and when you've got the qualifications they tell you that you don't have enough experience!.

Training companies don't help by bleeding people of their hard earned saving with stories of how much people can make as a bookkeeper. Thousands of new hopefuls are churned out each year but few of them even make it past recruitment agents intrays.

If this really is the path for you my advice would be to do the qualifications and then look at temping in credit control as a stepping stone. If it's a proper credit control department rather than a call centre you would be surprised how much practical experience you pick up including how to use packages such as SAGE and SAP.

The main thing that you need is about three years experience. Its just getting you're foot in the door somewhere that's the hardest part.

Good luck,

Shaun.

semsley · Guru

I'd go for AAT. You don't say how old you are, if you're under 25 you could maybe get a modern apprenticeship where you could do NVQ3 in accounting whilst working in an accounts environment. Your local careers advice service should be able to help in that (they're not called that anymore they have buzz word names now).

My husband (who worked in civil engineering) has been out of work for some time and he's enrolled on an AAT course unfortunately the lecturer has been ill so he's waiting for them to appoint to the post hopefully in the next few weeks. Theory being he can help me and we can expand cos I can't really take on any more at the moment although one client has just recommended me to anoher two, aargh.

larry · Newbie

You mention a job in credit control shamus - as a way to gain experience. This IS exactly the type of thing I am hoping to gain the qualifacations for. Would getting the ICB or IAB qualifacation, stand me in good stead in getting a job such as a credit controller (or similar) so that I get the experience needed to eventually move up the food chain? Also what other types of jobs could one start at with these qualifacations, to gain experience?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Larry,

I think to get your foot in the door in Credit Control really you need to be looking at AAT / CAT. Whilst you might get a job with ICB / IAB just try finding any Credit Control job that advertises for anyone with either of them! You won't. All job's ask for AAT / CAT or Part Qualified ACCA / CIMA. Mind you, they also ask for previous experience so you really have to do a great job of selling yourself to the agent.

Fully qualified AAT / CAT gives you exemptions from some of the ICM exams. ICM isn't neccessary to get a job in Credit Control but it helps. (told you that there was a three/four letter acronym for everything! ICM is the Institute of Credit Management).

A key skill in Credit Control is being able to use Excel properly. Lots of people think that they can but the real test is whether you can use Pivot Tables and Lookups. Being able to record your own Macro's helps as well! (you may be speed tested on Excel by an agent considering whether to represent you).

Other key skills are being able to reconcile all of the movements on an account. You also need to have the gift of the gab as you'll spend at least half you're life on the telephone.

I'm with Semsley in that I would say that AAT would be the best starting point. Expect to get your first credit control position based on price (so minimum wage at best! (minimum wage for the contracted hours and expectation that you will do more without charging)). Once you have experience things improve.

For temp's in credit control employers don't take any prisoners. They won't want to spend more than an hour or two training you in their systems and if you're not performing (reducing the aged debtor balances) you won't be back the next day so don't go for a position until you feel that you're ready as too many short contracts or gaps on the CV always work against you.

In addition to AAT there is a diploma in debt management and credit control which on your CV might show commitment to working in Credit Control. I think that it's a correspondence course run by a company called study house. Might be worth looking into (along with AAT, not instead of).

Without experience ICB / IAB might get you positions working at the entry level with the sales and purchase ledgers. Again this tends to be minimum wage type data entry work.

When doing work for next to nothing after spending a fortune on the learning to just get that job just remember the line by Nietzsche. "Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger".

Every minute of experience that you gain is another minute towards a successful career in finance.

Good luck and talk soon,

Shaun.