I am finding the rates you can charge do vary between £15 per hour to as little as £7. I always look at the type of work, is it simple Book-Keeping or is there more to the role? Will you be saving them money in accountancy fees, and obviously some companies can simply afford to pay more than say a small corner shop etc. The danger is, initialy, you want the work but you need to cover the cost of MLR, softwear, prof. liab insurance etc so I agree not below £8 even in these times!
Tony

I try not to quote a per hour rate, however if pushed I never quote less than £15 plus vat. I prefer to give a fixed fee per month and rarely do I lose out and usually the hourly rate works in my favour. Again I never go below £50 per month (not much more than a tenner a week) and my highest fixed fee is £500 per month. Clients seem to like to know what they are being charged each month rather than a random amount of hours.

Of course in the case of this particular client I would probably only see him once a year, as he is not vat registered and is just starting out, after initially getting him to keep some degree of bookkeeping, eg on VT like Shaun says (or more probably telling him to keep 12 envelopes marked witrh each month of the year!) I would do his books in one go. If you offer tax returns, I would probably price up as £250 for accounts and tax return.

But Shaun is absolutely right, it all depends on the client and of course at the start of your business it is tempting to start at a give away rate just to get the job, but it then becomes difficult to get thatcklient on a proper rate. I would rather start high and if it looks like the potential custom may be eking away, suggest ways around it, e.g instead of bringing books in monthly, I'll do them quarterly which will save time. But steer away from quoting an hourly rate.

A further example. I have just picked up a client to start in April. I have had a look at the bookkeeping (This is just bookkeeping and not final accounts/tax work) In my head I thought I could do this for around £100 to £150 per month. I noticed his present bookkeeper is charging £550 (and has been for 6 years!) and he has been happy to pay it. I have quoted £200 and he is delighted, I probably could have gone higher but I wouldn't want to rip him off. But people will often be prepared to pay more than you think.

Hi Amanda,
Yes it is busy and I am seeing a new client tomorrow and another on Friday and just picked up a new telephone answering client this week too. I don't think I'm in a particularly great area, Coventry isn't the most salubrious place in the country but there are small businesses everywhere (like yours and mine) and it is a question of getting yourself noticed. I am a great believer in the old adage of 'people buy people', so if you get in front of enough people and they like you/think you know what you are doing then you will get the job more often than not, which is why I won't under price myself. Of course there will always be those who will buy on price but they will normally be clients who are going to be a pain anyway. I have often wondered about doubling my prices and see if I can retain half my client base, thus earning the same for half the work, but I've never dared do it!

I have no idea how the other bookkeeper managed to keep that job and the client was fiercley loyal to her too (I guess he doesn't want to feel a mug for paying it all this time!). I know him via my BNI group and it hgas taken about 4 months for the penny to drop. I never do a hard sell but let him come to the conclusion that £350 per month saving equates to him taking his family on an extra skiing holiday a year!

Whatever you think that you are going to make in your first year halve it and aspire to hit that figure.

Most new bookkeepers are lucky to make £5k in the first year but it's just like rolling a snowball down a hill. Aim to pick at least one new client every month and in no time you're a proper business with more work than you can handle... It's just getting the ball rolling that's the hard part.

And even when you can't really afford to don't be afraid to get rid of clients that are problem cases either due to dodgy practices that they refuse to change or just difficulty extracting any money out of them (think that we all get at least one of those at some stage and it won't necessarily be the one's that are short of a bob or two).

I mention first year turnover as your PII will be based on this estimate.

You only need £50k cover on your turnover. So will bring your Trafalgar quote down dramatically as they're normally the cheapest.

Another two to get quotes from are Hiscox and Morethan. Hiscox is generally more expensive but covers you for more... Basically covers you for the things that under the other policies you think that your covered for!

Worry not, you've got a lot more lives left yet. Always happy to try and help those who are trying to help themselves.

Shaun.

I echo what was said below, don't go too cheap, because it will be difficult to increase later.

I have a client, who I do about 3 hrs work for a month I charge £50.00 per month.

I have been thinking when it comes to do his Tax Return, would it be reasonable for me to charge a one off fee for say £50, for doing all the tax return related tasks and final accounts.

Otherwise I would feel like I am doing this for free, I have discussed with client me doing the return also, but we haven't discussed price yet.

Hi there, does anyone use a specific method/ formula for figuring out how much work is involved inorder to quote a fixed fee for a potential client-e.g. 1 minute per invoice for example? Would you ask a potential client for a typical periods invoices to have a look at whats involved or just ask them how many invoices there are per month?

Rob

Do you think you could write a book in your spare time? On top of being busy and successful you are a treasure trove of information.

Cheers
Neil

I have quoted the client for year end and t/return, they have questioned the price? and asked why I have charged as much as I have.

Reflecting on this, I thought my price wasn't at all expensive, in the end I decided on £250.00.

My thoughts are maybe I should lower my cost, which I don't really want to do, but then if it means keeping the client then I may have to.

I wondered what yours thoughts are on this type of situation.

I am feeling a little disheartened, as I am doing this to earn a living as well as my full time job, I do need both incomes at the moment.



I'm sure things will sort themselves out in the end, they always do!



-- Edited by lor on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 12:27:48 PM

Thanks, Shamus, you have made me feel better, now I have to persuade my client, wish me luck, I will keep you updated. It's a real pain though. I do already charge £50 per month, but then that equals out to about £71 per month, which I feel is reasonable, this includes the vat return every quarter too. I offer a complete service to them.

Wish me luck, think I need it!

-- Edited by lor on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 01:13:37 PM

We could all chip with the Amigo's Bible of Business and Bookkeeping! I have always seen my strengths at getting the work in rather than doing the work! I'll be the 'Business Development Amigo' in the LLP.

Ohhhh can I join and write the Bible - I'm very quick and, mostly accurate, on the keyboard, have excellent spag (spelling and grammar to those not from an education background) and layout skills, plus I'm cheap.

RobH wrote:

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Hi Lorraine,

you need to charge what you feel the job is worth and stick with it. the same client would not hesitate in paying £75 per hour plus vat for a 17 year old apprentice to service his car at the local garage because that is what he expects to pay.

However, only you know how complicated this job is. You get £600 a year for doing the bookkeeping so I presume the final accounts is fairly straight forward, but to get into a proper full format with both the P & L and Balance Sheet then it has to be worth £100. Then what is involved with the tax return? Is it just the taxable profit for self employed and a bit of interest, or does the client also have a property that is let, dividends, pensions, CGT etc? If it is fairly simple, then you need to have a minimum charge for a tax return of at least £50 (which is very low). This would be £150 as a minimum charge. I would be tempted to let your client know that £250 is your usual charge and say all those things that Shaun quite rightly says, but that you are willing to offer a discount as times are difficult etc (20% brings it down to £200). But again, if you think it is a £250 job then just don't budge.

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 Thanks for your advice Rob, that given me something to think about.

Well I think Shaun has it right too, but sometimes there is a bit of room for manoevre especially if you are doing the regular bookkeeing too. I wont go below £100 (inc vat) for any type of tax return, even if it is just PAYE and I have plenty of clients on £150 to £200. But I do this because I know I can normally rattle through a basic income and expenditure account (these types do not have a business bank account and the only thing worth putting on the balance sheet is my accrual, so I don't prepare one) and tax return in about an hour or so (often they are CIS types). If it is what I would call a proper set of accounts and I am doing everything from start to finish in one go (non vat registered types) then I will not usually go below £250. but I also have a few on the £50 per month taht I will include the final accounts and tax return for simply because my bookkeeper does the monthly stuff and there is plenty left in it.

It's amiga -there, I told you I was good!!!!

Welcome Amiga!

Hi Denise, I've got quick fingers. By the way it's the tilde and you can create it on windows by alt+0241 on numeric keypad.

Jordan wrote:

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So, what to charge ? per hour I know but what ?

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I think it depends a lot on the area you are based.  
Rural tradesmen are always struggling.
Often useful to know what other "bookies" are charging;  after searching their websites I found this ...  [ link ]   and also ...  [ link ]

I'd be grateful if anyone else has links to share.  

 

Hi Amigos and Amigas !

I started this link and it has grown a life of its own ! so thx for all the info, very imformative.

On pricing, FYI  I have found an average of 17GBP per hour up here where prices are advertised, so happy days ! Still going the monthly charge route though, start high so can negotiate down if required (20yrs in sales does this!), seems clients want to know set expenditure, which is what we do right ?....

I have read through the PAYE Q & A's on the forum, and would definetely like to offer this as time goes on so:

What qualifications are required and you obviously need to register with HMRC ?

Thx to all with any info once again

cheersmedears

If it's the SA200 I would look at between £75 and £100.  It's more than just copying numbers, you're clients need to realise that not everything they've put on the spreadsheet will be allowed.  They're not paying you to put numbers in boxes but rather for your expertise in knowing which numbers you are allowed to put in the boxes.

Kris

-- Edited by kjmcculloch on Wednesday 22nd of September 2010 03:07:41 PM

Just out of interest, what did you charge?

Kris

I do office visits and start at £100 per day pro rata based on 7.5 hour day.

Hi Donna

Clients that I go into collect data from and have quick meetings to update or handover information I tend to add the time spent in their office onto the total hours that I am charging them for work done.

Hope that is of some help

Karen