How do you revise. - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

How do you revise.

AngelaWBS · Senior Member

Hi Shaun,

Although I haven't sat any exams for some time now, I find one way that suits me is to physically write/compute, for example with past exam papers. Or have somebody ask you questions so you have to verbalise the answer.

I can find information goes round my head all very well executed, but doesn't always come out the same when spoken or written.

My daughter has recently started using cards to memorise information, I think she found it quite useful too.

Rhianrach · Expert

So far I've managed by setting up a fake company and implementing anything I need to learn.

This has two advantages, one shows you how to implement the particular problem so simply if i need to learn where wages go manually in the accounts I will setup a fake payslip and post where i think they need to be then check my answers by finding a close example.

The secand advantage is whilst setting up fake examples you learn the nuts and bolts behind it, so in the example above I also learnt something about payroll (although minor it all helps).

By setting up a company you learn how to do all the bits and why they need doing, this had helped me tremendously so far, and shows when I take another example.

Some people on the same course as me and the higher level tend to learn parrot fashion so they know how to do something in a certain circumstance but fall over when you change the circumstances, i.e Intermediate level AAT at my college they all fell at the first hurdle because the past skills tests they had learnt from weren't like the one they had to do on the day so they had no chance of passing as they didn't understand why they were doing what they were doing.

I've found my method useful and allows me to understand in depth everything I'm being taught. Sometimes I have questioned a tutors method and even got them to change it as it isn't necessarily right (not often though and it tends to hurt their pride a tad).

This is of course a very time consuming way and although you end up knowing more than you needed to which is good, if you haven't the time then it's a bad idea.

Neil · Senior Member

Morning Amigo

Echoing Angela...

For me, the single most useful tool for revision is past papers aka knowing what the questions will be like. I'd use these to determine what I know, where I'm hopeless (this is only worth knowing is your paper has a choice of questions and you can disregard some) and where a little effort may reap dividends.

I don't waste time revising things I'm already au fait with and, if there is a choice of questions, I identify those areas where I'm just not going to pick up marks. Having identified the areas where revision will work, I read and write or solve problems.

There's no question for me that making myself output the information in the relvant format is even more important than taking it in in the first place. There's no need to write a full essay answer but making sure you can jot down the key bullet points is probably at least half way way to a perfect answer. I seem to recall you saying that's pretty much a pass in accountancy so there you go.

Where there are skills you need to carry out (not sure this applies to accountancy exams), I practise, practise, practise.

One thing I can say for sure is that revision is a doing thing. Continuous reading doesn't work because it's almost a passive thing.

Hope this helps (and if it does there will be a beer involved).

Neil

RobH · Expert

Mmmm, revision...not one of my strong points! I remember one of my reports (many years ago!) for French literature 'A' level was 'he finds ignorance of the text as grounds for mirth', you always remeber the cutting ones. During my degree I tried to suggest to those revising that 'the more you learn, the more you will forget' and thus conversley 'if you don't know much you won't forget it'. Now as a responsible father to a 12 year old girl I try to suggest she revises by doing mind maps which i thi k are pretty good. Please do not follow any of my previous advise, witha bit more diligence and application I'm sure I would have been employable!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Neil (Amigo #4),

this one's not actually for me. I've noticed that there's a lot of emails flying around on specifics on a forum with a lot of newbies who are just starting out on qualifications after (in many cases) long periods since they last took any exams.

Anyway, I thought that I would start throwing in a few threads that make people think about things such as their learning styles compared to those of others.

I also thought about a one a week key topic discussions to make people understand the subject matter in more depth from a practical rather than merely text book perspective.

Taking the thread about partnerships as a good example there is a lot of information in that to help people get their head around the subject.

Looking at this thread already we seem to have the styles of :

Practical application from Steve

Vocalisation from Angela (I would link that one very closely to teaching as a form of learning)

Memorisation of key facts by repetition from myself

Question practice from yourself.

All key skill building revision techniques. Personally my approach is a combination of doing old papers, revision cards, real life scenario's and also to a certain extent partaking of the debates on here.

Talk in a bit,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Rob,

love the French teachers quote!

My A levels were in Art, Art History, History and Biology. When I left the sixth form I had a couple of offers for good university places to study law but I'd also been offered a job in computing.

I took the job as it was the sort of role that you would normally have needed a degree to be considered for.

I regret not doing the university years now of course but at the time I was thinking Why go to university in order to get the job that I've just been offered anyway!

But I digress. My Dad goes along to the school for the final time proud as punch that his boys got this fantastic opportunity.

He talks with my year head who asks what I'm going to be doing to which my father answers

"He's going to be working with computers".

To which year head replies "What's he going to be doing, painting them!".

Don't you just love the confidence our teachers had in us!

Wella · Expert

What's revision?

There is also the case for the mental state of mind when taking an exam. Which can make or break a student.

I was, and still am, terrible at revision but I do try to put learning into practice as much as possible (practical application - use it, or lose it). I always went into an exam with a relaxed approach, either I was going to know the answer or I wasn't. I have more of a que dependant memory, so I tend to visualise the scenario and relate it to my practical work.

Bill

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Bill,

I know what you mean. I always believed (reinforced by my teachers!) that I was terrible at languages but then you get dropped in a situation where you need to pick up a language and suddenly you find that you can do it...

Actually, for "dropped in a situation" read "start dating a girl whose first language isn't English"... Think that we know what drives my learning the best!!!

RobH · Expert

Morning Shaun,

When I was in the sixth form, we had just one computer, it was a BBC computer. But only the exceptional boys from the chess club was allowed into the room with computer in it (that isn't being sexist, just that I went to a boys school!). So I never saw a computer until at college, and they were pretty much shrouded in mystery (and green writing). But all the best brains back then went into computing, I always had this image of smoke filled rooms full of Oxbridge types, wearing college scarves and writing huge lists of 1,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,1 etc. All those brains and they couldn't deviate from some binary program!

Have we gone off piste again?

Perhaps a separarte thread for 'most cutting school reports'!

RobH · Expert

Shaun are you misinterpreting Bill's example of practical application..or did you just desperately want to learn Swedish?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Rob,

I think that it's easier trying to nail a jellyfish to a wall than trying to keep our conversations on piste!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Actually, Thai, Slovenian and Russian... And no, not a mail order bride in sight!!!! All genuinely met through work / traveling.

I can still speak Thai although a bit rusty at the moment. The Russian now stops at being able to order a coffee and in Slovenian I can just about remember how order two beers... I can't remember how to order one beer so if I go there on my own I'll just end up pie eyed twice as quickly!

RobH · Expert

My first 'romantic' encounter was with a Swedish girl, and as a good bookkeeper I still have the receipt!! Just in case there is any doubt, that was a joke!!!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I had such high hopes for this thread when I started it and looks whats happened to it as soon as the Amigo's start chatting with each other.

The word coming to mind here is "Encouragable!".... Good laugh though.

Neil · Senior Member

Shaun

I think one serious answer is all my attention span can stretch to.

On a more serious note, my second wife was Italian so my Italian is not bad. mind you her English is excellent so I didn't get as much practice as I could have used. The upside of this is that my daughter is fluent in English and Italian and now also French because she lives in Toulouse. I'm trying to persuade her to study in Beijing for a year... could be useful.

Neil

Amanda · Expert

Hi Everyone,

Back to the revision question!!!

I am a terrible example of revision, although I do do the necessary course work, its never on time due to work and family commitments and my revision is normally as many past papers as poss and highlight my weak points and then go back over it again. Also sticky notes plastered all over the wall directly infront of me, have just bought a white board to write on there instead so not to have too much blue tack over the wall!!!

Exams, always take sweets with me I've normally eaten them all in the first hour but they help with the nerves for some reason.

Cheers folks,
A

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Neil,

Why Beijing? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a global perspective on education I just wondered why Beijing in particular?

I must admit that when my boy was being bullied due to being mixed race (he looks Caucasian but with a bit of a suntan) I did toy with the idea of bringing my plans forwards and for him to be educated in Thailand as his school was doing nothing in response to my protestations.

As it is, the problem has gone away for now as even though he's quite a gentle boy and the smallest in the class he sorted out the issues himself in the playground! Of course. Dad gets called in for his son fighting but we got diddly squat when I was screaming blue murder about racial abuse.

Problems in the past of course have me worried about what happens when he goes to secondary school this year as he's going to go through the same thing all over again.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

darn it, you got it back on track whilst I was posting another off piste post. Sorry!

on the exam consumables front that reminds me... Don't drink red bull before an exam!

It's great for a short term rush but in a three hour exam you burn out in the first half of it.

RobH · Expert

It's ridiculous Shaun. I recently joined Harriet's school's PTA and it's amazing how differently you are treated, even got a christmas card from the head. I just go to a few meetings, pour the mulled wine at christmas carol service and I think I am manning the veggie part of the bbq at the spring fair. This is all worth while since it means if I want to talk to the Head I am able to...and I have used this quite successfully already. You could even volunteer for treasurer and restrict the school's usage of funds until they have a proper code of conduct in place. Of course the school may be great!

Neil · Senior Member

Hi Shaun

I say Beijing because Chinese will obviously be a useful language as their global influence increases. This is no glib idea. Her mother and I reckon that with Chinese, Russian (or any other Slavonic language) and German she'd be able to converse with 90% of people on the planet. Of course, there will always be gaps.

Incidentally, she's a musician so global travel is a real possibility.

Since you asked, my A-levels were in Biology, Chemistry and combined Physics/Maths. I went to medical school at 18 but dropped out then did a degree with the OU much later, followed by a PhD. All of this has opened my eyes to how little I know. If life were infinitely long and I didn't need to feed myself and my family I'd just spend my time learning.

Just to divert this thread a bit further I've just reminded myself of another question I have:

Having a PhD, I'm usually addressed as Doctor Neil. In my current line, pretty much everyone is Doctor something but do you think I'd be better using it or not in business? Would it be advantageous, misleading, irrelevant or a good talking point?

Dr Neil AICB, AT4A

ProBowlUK · Senior Member

Neil wrote:

....
Just to divert this thread a bit further I've just reminded myself of another question I have:

Having a PhD, I'm usually addressed as Doctor Neil. In my current line, pretty much everyone is Doctor something but do you think I'd be better using it or not in business? Would it be advantageous, misleading, irrelevant or a good talking point?

Dr Neil AICB, AT4A

Not unless you want to doctor people's accounts (?) disbelief

Why did the bookkeeper train as a chef ?

Any more BK jokes ? -->> Time Out forum

-- Edited by ProBowlUK on Monday 22nd of March 2010 02:13:41 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

There seem to be a lot of PhD's working in banking but none of them use Doctor as a prefix.

I'm adverse to say that it's irrelevant but I don't think that I would use it as it may give the impression to clients that finance isn't your first calling.

I'm with you on the dominant languages. I know that Brazil and India are also in the running but I believe that the sleeping superpowers will come to dominate the world markets.

I know that many will disagree with me but I can still see the India situation imploding on them.

I'm with you on the infinite learning. What we need I think is groundhog day where the same day keeps repeating until we're ready to move forwards.

It would also be so nice to actually learn a subject properly rather than learning to pass exams and then properly learning the subject later!

Guru Shaun. FT4A

Neil · Senior Member

Shaun, Good point on the Dr bit.

We figured that Brazil was covered as an Italian speaker can muddle through with Portuguese but I hadn't thought of India. Again, business-minded Indians speak excellent English as it's their commercial lingua franca (I have a feeling I've really misused an idiom there).

Bob. I hadn't seen Dr Books. Maybe not a good idea.

Neil

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:

I think that it's easier trying to nail a jellyfish to a wall than trying to keep our conversations on piste!

It's a pity this forum doesn't add tags to posts like some other forums do. A lot of interesting topics develop from things that seem minor but there is no way of knowing where they are to go back to at a later date. Well, I suppose it could be done but it all takes time.

Neil · Senior Member

Peasie. Do you mean you never know when it might be useful to know how difficult it is to nail a jellyfish to a wall?

Neil

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Neil,

it comes from a report by Goldman Sachs which details the relative global powers over the next 50 years. The report is called Dreaming in BRICs and identifies Brazil, Russia, India and China as the four major global powers for the next half century.

I have fundamental disagreements with some of the reports arguments and conclusions as I do not believe that they use all available facts. However the four are undeniably strong contenders of which I would place Russia and China in the prime positions.

Whilst in the short term this report should have no effect upon us as bookkeepers and accountants I feel that we need to keep a global perspective as more and more we will need to be dealing with companies that deal on an international stage so obviously there is strong argument for us to be concentrating more of our energies on the study of import / export regulations, treatment of foreign currency transactions, international reporting standards etc.

This could actually be another argument in favour of the IAB as although they may not be the largest bookkeeping supervisory body they have more of an international bias including a level 4 exam on international financial reporting standards... Plus of course IAB does actually stand for International Association of bookkeepers.

There we go, knew that I could guide this thread back onto bookkeeping!!!

RobH · Expert

Neil, you could just call yourself dramigo.

Shaun I was going to mention Brazil too. They are one of the 'BRIC' countries and have a specified plan to be in the top GDP countries in next few years...it's all those oil fields they have found. I woyuldn't want to live near Central/South America at the moment though with all those earthquakes!

Neil · Senior Member

Hi Rob.

Don't you think Dramigo sounds like someone who would throw up their arms in horror and stomp out of the room?

On Brazil. You're only the second person who told me about all their oil finds. How on Earth did that not become a BBC headline?

Neil

RobH · Expert

I may start calling my daughter Dramigo then Neil, she is fast becoming the little drama queen.

I kept hearing all these news items on the radio about BRIC countries and I worked out Russia, India and China and it took me a while to realise the other was Brazil. So I looked into it a bit and found out about the oil fields ( i think it has gone beyond exploratory oil platforms and will soon be extracting the black stuff). What a carnival they will have once the money statrts rolling in!

-- Edited by RobH on Monday 22nd of March 2010 02:57:07 PM

Neil · Senior Member

I think Brazil was already at the forefront of the biofuel race what with all that sun. If they have such a wealth of the fossilised stuff they will be Energy Central.

I hope the Americans have stopped upsetting them...

Neil

RobH · Expert

Oh I think the Americans will be currying favour, they have tried so hard (usually in the wrong ways) to get a foothold in the Middle East, maybe they will soften towards Brazil. They will be buying up Cuban cigars and inviting Castro over in case they have any too. Perhaps this is why we are keeping hold of the Falklands?

Neil · Senior Member

Could be why we're renewing exploration in the South Atlantic...

Wella · Expert

I've come in late on this one, haven't got a clue whats going on

Something about bricks and the UK claiming sovereignty over Brazil!!

Someone also mentioned the dastardly "Dramingo", James Bonds deadliest enemy and seeker of world domination.

There was also the mention of a Swedish girl. Probably the same one that broke my heart.

-- Edited by Wella on Monday 22nd of March 2010 04:15:48 PM

-- Edited by Wella on Monday 22nd of March 2010 04:21:17 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Bill,

I've followed it all the way through Bill and I'm lost as well...

She wasn't called Dale was she as that one had a go at my heart as well... Although mine never actually spoke Swedish as she'd only been born there then brought up in America.

Now that would be weird if all three of us had dated the same girl!

Wella · Expert

Sounds like the same girl Shaun but she had a different name and was bought up in Sverige.

SadieH · Member

Brilliant thread.. and funny to!!

Ive always found revision cards really useful, and also making notes on post its or larger and sticking them all around the place, like the bathroom mirror and cereal cupboard door.

Ive always worked really well with reading something and then re-writing it my own words, really long winded i know.

I think past papers are always the winner though.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sadie,

hows it going? Not seen you around for a while.

Whats occurring on the course front? Did you eventually sign up for the AAT ABC or have you taken a different route.

I'm sure that having yellow post its on my bathroom mirror would definitely improve the reflection!

Totally agree on the past papers which of course is a real downer for ICB people as I'm pretty sure that they're now the only body where you have to pay for past papers.

semsley · Guru

Before deciding on how to revise you need to know your learning style. When I taught GCSE and/or management qualifications I always used to give the students at the first lesson Honey and Mumford's learning styles questionnaire. (Still got it somewhere). Once you've settled on your learning style then you can work out the best way to revise whether visual, verbal or kinesthetic or seeing, listening or doing. There's no right or wrong way just different ways (bit like how to do things with microsoft).

You need to find out what works for you, be it mind maps (no use whatsoever to me) but some people swear by them, Shaun's cards, yellow (or other colour) stickies all over the place with aides memoire, or doing past papers, getting friends/partners to question you, or recording topics and listening to them on, say a tape recorder. Main thing is not to overdo it and end up with a mushy brain with all sorts going around all muddled up.

-- Edited by semsley on Monday 22nd of March 2010 07:15:37 PM

SadieH · Member

Hi Shaun,

Im more of a lurker at the mo, untill i have something relevant to say, haha.

Im planning to do what you advised yes, just waiting for the funds really, my oh was going to pay initially but now im just going to save as ive been given some work.

My friend and her partner own 2 day nurseries, so have asked me to do their books, and shes also going to pass the wages over to me to, which she uses sage for, so that will be fab for experience.

Im just in the process of catching up from Sept last year with the one, and then have to make a start on the other.

Its only data input really, haha.

Its not great money an hour, just a little over minimum wage, but hey, im not expecting the earth, and i knew she probably wouldnt want to part with much, seen as shes quite capable of doing them herself, its just an incovenience for her.. and to be honest, i probably would have done it for nothing just for the experience.

Ive also managed to get my hands on the sage accounts software, so that should help no end.

Im just really frustrated at the min, and eager to get started, just a waiting game.. HUFF! smile

..Mind, reading through some of the posts on here, its not like im missing out on much in the working world, difficult out there at the moment isnt it.

Thanks for asking, hows things with you?

RobH · Expert

Shaun seems to like 'on the job learning' wink

It has since become de rigeur for all Amigos!

pammyj · Veteran Member

I like to revise by reading what I need to know and writing it in shorter version but I like the idea of revision cards and breaking them down until you know them before you move on to something else.

But definitely the best revision is actually doing it in practise until you have it right on the nail!

Is there anyway of getting free past papers? I know the icb charge £5 for theres, which is a rip off for a couple of pieces of paper!

I was wondering whether when you start a thread like this to have it as a 'not off topic' type of thread so newbies like myself can read it through and would be a great help without having to read everyone going off topic biggrin

semsley · Guru

Hi SadieH

That's a lot of the problem these days it is just data input until something goes wrong then a knowledge of the underlying principles of book-keeping come in. Many companies and, more particularly, small sole traders think that putting everything on to Sage or some other computer package is easy and they can diy. If done by a data inputter they can get their books into one heck of a mess.

SadieH · Member

Yeah i totally agree with you, thats why im hoping to gain that knowledge.

pammyj · Veteran Member

Can i ask a really daft question?? Well I am anyway and prob expect many more!

is sage instant accounts different from sage line 50?

semsley · Guru

Instant is a potted down version of Line 50. Not as many facilities as you would expect with the price difference.

pammyj · Veteran Member

Oh ok, I have line 50 so thats ok for my course then, thankfully

thanks semsley

Rhianrach · Expert

pammyj wrote:

Oh ok, I have line 50 so thats ok for my course then, thankfully

thanks semsley

I use sage instant at work and 2009 line 50 at home and I've noticed that a lot of the difference is in the reporting.

Some of the reports you can do on line 50 are very useful and can't be found on instant. One that springs to mind is trial balance by transaction, awesome tool if you have a sneaky suspense account entry that you know shouldn't be there, you can home in on it very quickly.

Abigail · Member

Re Teachers;

I handed in my art homework to my art teacher and he looked at it, then at me and said "Nevermind, I expect you are better at English or Maths". Trouble is, I wasn't.

Amanda · Expert

Love the pict Shaun, that was one of my favourites, its such a classic, I have watched them so many times.

A