Do you need to be part of a governing body? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Suffolker · Senior Member

Do you need to be part of a governing body?

R2s · Veteran Member

This is exactly how I've been feeling which is why I have been researching MLR with HMRC and getting quotes for PII.

As far as I understand you can just register with HMRC for MLR and buy your PII each year.

The only thing that concerns me is the timing of swapping it over so I've got continous cover.

Go onto the HMRC website and put in MLR and there's loads to read....I know that's what I did yesterday!!

RobH · Expert

I'm sure you can trade without a governing body, but I'm not sure what the drawbacks are by sticking with ICB? Is it the annual membership? Despite all the criticism the ICB seems to come in for, I would have thought better to be with them than not? Was there talk on earlier threads that you may be able to swap allegiances to IAB?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi,

to echo what Rachel states, you don't need a practicing certificate from the ICB unless you want to use their crest.

In fact, there is nothing in law to stop you calling yourself and accountant let alone a bookkeeper... I wouldn't, but there's nothing to stop you.

My belief is that the MLR registration with HMRC is a one off but I've not taken that route myself so Rachel would probably be in a better position to advise.

The other downer of course in leaving the ICB is that you lose the letters after your name.

Personally I am similarly disappointed with the ICB. In my case I'm swapping allegiances to the IAB. I'll keep everyone informed as to how that goes.

I'm already impressed though both with their attitude to me and the fact that their website is built on the assumption that people may still access it after qualifying.

The ICB website by comparison seems totally geared towards harvesting as many new students as possible.

All the best,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Rob,

yes you can, and I am...

I'm with you in that I feel that it's better to belong to some affiliation but if the body that you have affiliated yourself to does not represent your best interests then what is the point of them.

R2s · Veteran Member

If you register with HMRC for MLR you register once but pay an annual fee like you would under the ICB etc.

At the moment it works out cheaper to register with the HMRC seeings how the ICB have now put up their prices but insurance may be more as ICB / Trafalgar insurance is supposed to be at a discount.

Swings and roundabouts.

Suffolker · Senior Member

Hi Rob, I did contact the IAB but they wouldn't take me unless I either did more exams or applied for special consideration. Like others have said on here the ICB are cash cows, constantly raising their prices or creating new things/ways to get money out of you. Their customer care leaves alot to be desired too. After taking & passing exams with the ICB I've learnt more from working self employed under an accountant than I ever did studying. I'm also lucky that if I do ever get stuck with something the accountant would help me out. I just want to make sure I would still be 'legal' if I let the ICB membership run out.

Thanks Rachel will have a look

Suffolker · Senior Member

-- Edited by Suffolker on Sunday 28th of March 2010 05:34:18 PM

RobH · Expert

Yes I can understand your frustrations, well at least it appears you can go it alone without too many problems, I guess it may depend on whether you feel you get more business in bt stating you are part of ICB. I can't see that there would be a problem with telling clients you have passed the ICB exams.

Suffolker · Senior Member

Thanks Rob, thats a good point. I've got the certificates to prove I've passed exams if anyone ever asks. Like someone said once before though the main recognised governing body seems to be the AAT. But yeah everything runs out in October time so a good few months as yet.

Stardoe · Guru

Hi all,

It is £120 to register each premises you trade from with HMRC and £120 annually after that.

I'm getting a little worried about all these negative comments about the ICB. Are they really that bad? I have several years bookkeeping experience but have no "paper qualifications" to show for it, so have registered with the ICB as a student member and am working my way through the manual and computerised exams. I have passed Level 1 but am intending to leave upgrading membership until I have passed all the exams in the hope it will be cheaper this way!

I am already working as self-employed and have been issued with a Supervision Licence by the ICB.

I have not had much contact with them so far, but when I have, have always found them helpful and polite. They were a little late sending out my MLR regulation manual (tome!) and I had to chase them up.

What is everybody finding the problem with them? Beginning to wonder if I shouldn't change to IAB myself!

Pauline

PJC Bookkeeping · Veteran Member

Same here I have been happy with ICB so far and have no complaints whatsoever. Of course, every business must make money and even it is geared towards students so what?! biggrin

So Pauline I should stick with them for now. Only time will tell!

Peter

PJC Bookkeeping Services

Stardoe · Guru

Hi Peter,

I guess everyone's experiences are different as well. I don't know what the IAB's fee structure is, but I guess it could be going from the frying pan into the fire if I changed! I'll stick with the ICB until I qualify and take it from there.

Pauline

Suffolker · Senior Member

Hey Pauline I thought the MLR with the HMRC was 120 registration and 95 there after?

Also I think its just about weighing up how much it costs for membership, practising license & the use of letters after your name with how much your earning and how much your benefitting from being with the ICB.

-- Edited by Suffolker on Sunday 28th of March 2010 06:34:23 PM

Stardoe · Guru

Hi,

No, it's definitely £120 for registering and then £120 annually after that. It used to be £95, but went up recently.

Quote - ""There's an initial fee for each of the premises you list in your registration. This is currently £120 for each premises. If you're listing more than one premises you can make a single payment to cover all of the fees due.

You have to pay the registration fee when you first apply to register under the Money Laundering Regulations and every year after that. Towards the end of your registration year HMRC will send you a reminder to pay your annual renewal fee. The letter shows the registration details that HMRC has for your business and also how much you must pay.

There is a one-off application fee for the fit and proper test. This is currently £50 for each person who applies. You won't need to apply again for the test.""

I agree that you have to weigh up how much you will be earning against how much the membership fees etc cost.

Pauline

What's wrong with the formatting!

-- Edited by Stardoe on Sunday 28th of March 2010 07:49:05 PM

lor · Guru

is that your cat Pauline, it's gorgeous!

semsley · Guru

I would say it is not necessary to belong to a governing body from the perspective of gaining business, experience is what counts with clients. I haven't belonged to one and it has not been a detriment to me. I have recently taken L3 with IAB (awaiting result) purely for MLR as it's cheaper than paying HMRC.

-- Edited by semsley on Monday 29th of March 2010 06:26:38 PM

Stardoe · Guru

Hi Lorraine,

Yes it's my puddy tat. Her name is Kimmi and she's a rescue cat. She's very timid and doesn't go outside. Had her about 18 months now. She's quite affectionate if you treat her right

Pauline

lor · Guru

my cats don't go out, unless I'm with them in the back garden, they don't try to run away though! they are house cats, I have had them since they were kittens, now they are almost 5.

My new pic is ernie the cat!

lor · Guru

sorry to hijack another post, to talk about cats again! your pic inspired me to change my pic!

-- Edited by lor on Monday 29th of March 2010 08:23:20 PM

Stardoe · Guru

How many cats do you have Lor? That one looks like a cheeky chappy!

No need to apologise for hijacking the thread, the "3 amigos" posts often seem to go off thread....lol

Is there a cat forum out there?

Pauline

Stardoe · Guru

Semsley,

We're not going to start that "experience versus qualifications" debate again are we?

Pauline

semsley · Guru

Stardoe wrote:

Semsley,

We're not going to start that "experience versus qualifications" debate again are we?

Pauline

Not unless you want to - do you have an opinion on belonging to a governing body or not?

Stardoe · Guru

Hi Semsley,

No, I don't want to start that debate again...lol

I'm currently a student member of the ICB and haven't really been a member of a governing body before or for long enough to form an opinion really. I suppose it all depends on personal preference and whether you can generate enough work to justify the cost. Also depends on what other benefits belonging to a governing body has other than being regulated for ML.

Pauline

semsley · Guru

TBH, I don't think there are many other benefits other than ML and perhaps cheaper PII with ICB or IAB, but if one wants to work for an employer I think it is worthwhile to go down the AAT route as it is well respected by employers.

lor · Guru

Stardoe wrote:

How many cats do you have Lor? That one looks like a cheeky chappy!

No need to apologise for hijacking the thread, the "3 amigos" posts often seem to go off thread....lol

Is there a cat forum out there?

Pauline

2 cats Bert and Ernie, as a collective they are known as Bernie, lol!

The cat in the pic is ernie and he refuses to drink water from his bowl.

and yes I think we need to join a cat forum lol

do you just have the one cat or do you have more?

Stardoe · Guru

Hi Lor,

No, just got the one, although next door's cat keeps coming in and hijacking my bed! They hiss at each other but nothing more than that.

Pauline

Lisa Jo · Senior Member

IAB to pay structures for different level of memberships, starting from associate, member & then fellowship status, which is the most expensive. I paid 2 fees, 1 for my fellowship status (which I pay yearly) & then another fee for certificate of compliance. I had a discount on PII £156, what does everyone else pay for their PII?

RobH · Expert

£48 per month...I wonder if I should shop around.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Sounds like you should Rob.

Try Morethan. The covers not as good as Hiscox but seems better than Trafalgar and the premiums are cheaper than Hiscox.

Actually, getting into character, me and Trigger have this scheme. Pony a year mate!

RobH · Expert

and I'm paying a monkey! It goes on turnover though, so it may not be any better. I know Hiscox are quite competitive compared to my previous insurer (cannot recall who they were) and I asked my broker to see if he could come up with anything cheaper at last renewal date. I wouldn't have even thought about Morethan, so I'll give them a buzz, cheers Del.

AICB · Senior Member

Not wanting to distract attention from the cats discussion, but I did find that ICB/Trafalgar combination gave the lowest quote for insurance that we (hopefully) are never likely to call upon. They charged me a premium of £114 with an "admin fee" of £30. It is a lot less than I've paid before, probably because you're a lower risk to the insurer if you belong to a professional body.

I know from experience that some insurers just stick a wet finger in the air when asked to quote a premium, so shopping around is always worth it. insuredrisks.co.uk hasn't been mentioned yet; they are worth an enquiry when renewal time comes around.

RobH · Expert

Cheers Andrew,

I'm going to shop around next time....not seen a slide rule for about 30 years!

Rob

AICB · Senior Member

I'd agree that paying professional membership rates just for letters and MLR doesn't sound much of a deal. But some comments here set me thinking about what I do get from my membership:

A convincing professional endorsement for client.
Access to (monthly) updated information.
Advance warnings and advice of big regulatory changes.
Access to new job advertisements.
Getting technical help on any bookkeeping question.
Direct advice on legal questions.
Meetings with other members practicing in the region.
Confidence from having had guided professional studies.
Confidence from a bulletproof MLR system.
Confidence when subcontracting chartered accountants' services.
A structure for CPD.
Seriously good professional seminars.
(Some) advice on the realities of self-employed practice.
A feeling that the body is advancing bookkeepers' status in business.
A jolly nice crest (with a cheesy motto).

There's probably more. I might not rate it so much if I was a full-time employee in an accounts section, say, but I think it works very well for me on my own.

AICB · Senior Member

Ah, Rob - that's because I've been collecting them all!!

RobH · Expert

I shall ask my 13 year olod daughter if she knows what one is...I think I know the answer to that one! In fact I bet if I gave her one she would ask where the 'on switch' was!