Advice for a newbie please? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

MrsNed · Member

Advice for a newbie please?

RobH · Expert

Hi Sally and welcome.
There are quite a few discussions on here about courses and qualifications. I guess to precis them down a bit, you have a choice (amongst others) of the short route or the long route. The shorter route would be via IAB or ICB (IAB is getting better press on here currently out of the two for their support) or the longer route would be AAT. If you are looking at getting a job then AAT is the respected by employers route. If you are looking at being qualified then IAB or ICB would be the quickest way of getting your practice certificate. Of course you can become a self employed bookkeeper without any qualifications and again there is a thread on here about whether it isnecessary to have agoverning body which would be worth reading. Whatever way you go, you will need to be registered for Money Laundering Regulations (MLR) either with hmrc or with your governing body. It is also preferable to take out Professional Indemnity Insurance, but this is not obligatory whereas the MLR is.

Good luck,

Rob

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sally,

STOP.... your about to make a huge mistake of biblical proportions.

Firstly, choice of training provider :

Home learning college is hugely expensive and this is a case where cost does not relate to the best training.

If you decide to go down this route look seriously at either Premier Training or Ideal schools. Both of which offer an excellent service for a reasonable price.

Next. Expectations.

If you read the information from the ICB and the training providers they would have you convinced that there is good money to be made and plenty of work.

This is a lie motivated by he fact that if they did not have a steady stream of newbies coming on board then their funds would dry up.

The reality is that the training companies are churning out thousands of new bookkeepers each year and many of these find it very difficult to find any work. When they do it is often very poorly paid and for the hours that you put in it is probably less than you are on at the moment.

Now the better news.

There is work to be had. You've probably been looking at the ICB route but that is no good if you want to work for someone else as employers demand that you be qualified with the AAT. You can still do this by distance learning. It is more expensive but at least there is more hope of employment at the end of it.

If you train AAT you can still set up on your own. If you study AAT it's pretty much a given (with a few exceptions) that you will only be able to set up on your own.

I would however strongly advise you to seek employment in this area before setting up on your own. If you did pursue the self employed route then you will certainly need to keep your existing job on as well as for the first year or two your business is likely to cost more to run than the income that you will receive.

Sorry if this comes across as a bit negative. I genuinely do wish you the very best in this career choice but people read so many false promises from the training providers and invest so much money only to be ultimately disappointed.

As a first step have a look at the Premier training website and then talk to Jane Hasler whose one of the people there. She gives some really good and helpful advice on where to start if this is the path that you want to take.

Other alternatives might be (as a starting point) either the Open University course B190 (about £295) or the AAT ABC Bookkeeping Course (about £195).

Both of those are introductory courses but would at least give you a feel for things without investing too much money.

Welcome to the forum Sally,

kind regards,

Shaun.

MrsNed · Member

Many thanks Rob!!

I had initially looked at AAT, I bvelieve there are several levels, how long do you think it would take to complete all 3 levels in computerised bookkeeping? Bear in mind I will be distance learning.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Rob,

How are you today?

I really have got to type faster.

I'm doing a bit of work at the moment but just saw newbie and HLC and had to rush for the keyboard.

Your not far off being a Guru now matey... And well deserved it will be as well.

MrsNed · Member

Thanks Shaun!

I will definately look into Premier Training.

I am more than willing to keep my current job on until such time as I think I can afford to 'go it alone'.

I just want to make something of myself, I have been in the same job for almost 10 years, and I need a change. I enjoy doing my H2B's books, and I am convinced I could do well if I put my mind to it!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sally,

AAT can normally be done in two to three years but it's very flexible around you so could be done faster or slower as required.

If you took the AAT ABC you can have exemption from the fundamental level of AAT as they cover pretty much the same material.

Shaun.

RobH · Expert

Morning Shaun,

yes 33 (now 32) more posts and I will have the hallowed status!

I didn't respond to Sally's post too quickly because I know theer are more qualified people to remark on it, but I couldn't let it hang there! I assumed you were working as it was fairly quiet yesterday without you!

Catch you later,

Rob

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sally,

some people really take to it, others never understand it no matter how much money they throw at it.

Sounds as though you come into the former category.

If you do decide to take the ICB / IAB route it is faster and cheaper. You also don't need a training provider in order to take their exams (Something the training providers won't tell you!).

The ICB is the larger organisation and they are attempting to become more professional at the moment which is causing issues with some existing members. They do also seem to want to charge people for absolutely everything.

The IAB is (currently) a smaller organisation but as their name would suggest they are more recognised internationally. Also their exams will get you exemptions from some higher qualifications such as AAT, ACCA, CAT, ATT, CIMA, IFA, etc.

Hypothetically you could pass three exams with the ICB and then set up in practice. This is a route that many experienced people take in order to get MLR cover and cheaper PII insurance. I would not however advise anyone to set up in business if all that they have done are those three exams.

In your case you do the books of 'im indoors so dependent upon the complexity of the organisation you may already be in a better position than many.

Hope that the messages help. Main thing of course is that we stopped you from signing on the dotted like of the HLC before you were able to compare them to other organisations.

Have a read around this site at some of the stories related to training providers. Some of Neils early postings are quite good to read. Also any threads related to when people have just taken exams.

Talk soon,

Shaun.

RobH · Expert

Hi Sally, I think Shaun has answered your question. There are three levels, Foundation, Intermediate and Technician. It may be that you can get exemption from foundation if you have some knowledege of bookeeping but if you are a bit rusty it may be worth going back to basics (and I think some of it is very basic at that point). Once you get to Technician, then you have a very good qualification that is really just a notch or so below that of qualified accountant. Shaun makes a very valid point about maybe getting a job in accounts first (especially in practice) as experience of a year or so working for a firm of accountants would be invaluable. Some new bookkeepers even volunteer just to get this experience, but unfortunately that doesn't pay the nursery fees!
Rob

MrsNed · Member

Thankyou both for your replys!!

I will have a good read round the forum, but Premier training do look very good, and their fee's are very reasonable.

I am very excited!! lol!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Its our pleasure Sally.

Both Rob and myself wear our underpants outside our trousers and just try to ensure that everyone gets a good start at this rather than being fleeced by unscrupulous training providers.

Right, back to the bat cave Rob.

RobH · Expert

I thought that was our little secret Shaun!

Abigail · Member

Hi Sally,

I am new on here and am currently studying ICB level 2 with Ideal Schools having just finished level 1 (not heard exam result yet).

I really recommend Ideal Schools as the study material is clearer than any of the books I had read before, also I was able to pay monthly at £50 per month interest free and the price was the best I could find. I decided that I would sign up for all 3 levels from the start as that saved money and meant that I had to stick at it.

I am not as experienced as others on this forum but that might help you because that makes us almost in the same boat.

I have been at home with children for nearly 10 years now and I am hoping that bookkeeping will be as flexible as I need it to be.

Before I had my 3 children I worked for my mum's law firm in the conveyancing department and when her bookkeeper left because she couldn't cope I moved from the conveyancing department to the accounts department. I did not have a clue what I was doing and the Law Society audit was due in 2 weeks. Luckily they gave us a months extension because we discovered that all of the books were incorrect, including the client accounts.

I had to learn how to reconcile the accounts with no previous experience. I worked day and night and figured it all out for myself and we passed the audit. I never had the chance to learn properly and because it was my mum's business I just found the whole experience a huge worry. I stayed in the accounts department for another 3 years before I left to have a family but I never felt confident in what I was doing, especially when the accountant came in for the audits. It was embarrassing.

I knew that if I had been trained properly and I hadn't been doing it for my mum that I would have enjoyed it. I wish that I knew then what I know now.

I must admit that after 10 years of CBeebies I am just hugely relieved that my brain still worked after I had blown the dust off. I got 100% in my practice exam paper.

-- Edited by Abigail on Tuesday 30th of March 2010 11:40:11 AM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Rob,

Hate to say it but Rodney's Robin is your spitting image!... Our secret may be out!

MrsNed · Member

lmao at Shaun and Rob!!

Abigail, hi! Nice to meet you, and well done for getting 100% in your practice paper!

I hope we will be able t compare notes as time goes on, I haven't yet looked at ideal schools, but am off to google now...

MrsNed · Member

So does that make you Delboy?!

RobH · Expert

Shaun I get called a 'plonker' at least three times a day too! So you think more Rodney than Robert Redford eh?!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Next year I'll be a millionaire!

RobH · Expert

So, Shaun, you are Del Boy, I'm Rodney, I reckon Neil's Trigger and Bill is granddad! Who wants to be Boycey?

Amanda · Expert

You've just brighten up my day!!!!!!
you are so funny Rob and Shaun!!!
Whos uncle Albert, anyone been at sea??

I agree Shaun, Rob does look abit like Rodney, or was it Rooney onthe bracelet?

Must go I actually have some work to do today and just thought I'd have a quick look!

Abigail · Member

Shamus wrote:

Next year I'll be a millionaire!

Can I do your books?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Ttt, with that much money I was expecting at least marriage proposals!

Go on, I've got to ask. Whose the picture of? I know that I should know this one and the one on the left is ringing bells but just not clicking at the moment.

I know that I'm going to kick myself when you tell us.

Hi Amanda

brightening up your day is just one more service that Rob and myself offer.... The Invoice is already in the post!

Wella · Expert

RobH wrote:

So, Shaun, you are Del Boy, I'm Rodney, I reckon Neil's Trigger and Bill is granddad! Who wants to be Boycey?

Didn't want to feel left out

Grandad

RobH · Expert

I think Abigail has gone all kinky Shaun.

RobH · Expert

Favourite granddad lines:

'that Sidney Potter always plays a black man'

and whilst being questioned by the police 'was he caucasian' 'Nah he was a white geezer'

Lisa Jo · Senior Member

Oh crikey, what is this lot The Traders Association for dodgy dealers?

Abigail · Member

Let me know when you hit that million and we'll set a date.

BTW; Rob is spot on, its the Kinks, my favourite band.

Abigail · Member

RobH wrote:

Favourite granddad lines:

'that Sidney Potter always plays a black man'

and whilst being questioned by the police 'was he caucasian' 'Nah he was a white geezer'

I love "it was nothing to do with me Del, I only suggested it"

Neil · Senior Member

Have I missed something?

Neil

semsley · Guru

Don't recognise anyone, anymore.

RobH · Expert

Cosmic! aren't you that stripper?I recognise you!

-- Edited by RobH on Tuesday 30th of March 2010 09:06:11 PM

semsley · Guru

It was only part-time

camster · Member

Hi Mrs. Ned,

Like you, I am a newbie when it comes to accounting. I was (and still am) also thinking of a career change. I initially looked at something of a "fast track". ACCA and the likes do not offer (or at least their exemptions listing) any, well, exemptions for someone with a non accounting/econs/finance undergraduate degree. Neither did having a postgraduate degree matter!

Do peruse BPP's online material - very useful. I am a complete newbie myself and I found the AAT ABC to be immensely useful! And apparently, it offers AAT Level 1 (first of 3 levels) exemption. Doing the AAT ABC (for me at least) was well worth £175.

As for Sage software, go with Instant Accounts V12 - that'll suffice for now. I'll probably get in trouble with the admins here, but you can easily source for this software on the web.

Finally, Shaun and Rob are both spot on! Better to research thoroughly and not get taken in by the many, many training providers out there.

Rhianrach · Expert

camster wrote:

As for Sage software, go with Instant Accounts V12 - that'll suffice for now. I'll probably get in trouble with the admins here, but you can easily source for this software on the web.

You can get a free trial and I'm certain I read somewhere that they extend it for students. confuse

camster · Member

LOL. I was referring to torrential minus the "ial" :D

Apart from using Sage, I think playing around with how it integrates with Excel is good too. Or it could just be me - it's all new to me.

lor · Guru

Shamus wrote:

Hi Rob,

Hate to say it but Rodney's Robin is your spitting image!... Our secret may be out!

I have been thinking the same thing, it confused me really your pic Shamus, because I thought it looked more like RobH dressed as Robin! It really does look like that! that is so funny!

lor · Guru

I want to be Cassandra!

Rhianrach · Expert

camster wrote:

LOL. I was referring to torrential minus the "ial" :D

Apart from using Sage, I think playing around with how it integrates with Excel is good too. Or it could just be me - it's all new to me.

Yeah I can see where you were heading and apart from the moral implications of downloading copyrighted software without paying for it, the government are now trying to implement means of stopping you from doing it.

Like I say for study purposes you can get sage for 14 months, it's called Simply accounting (don't know what its like) here,

http://www.simplyaccounting.com/downloads/student/

Steve

camster · Member

"e government are now trying to implement means of stopping you from doing it."

Good luck to the "gov"! LOL. I may be new to accounting, but when it comes to telecoms, I know this space very well :D

P.S. My moral compass says it's OK (let's not get into a debate on this here), especially if you're only doing this to "get a feel" - not even for study purposes!

Rhianrach · Expert

camster wrote:

"e government are now trying to implement means of stopping you from doing it."

Good luck to the "gov"! LOL. I may be new to accounting, but when it comes to telecoms, I know this space very well :D

P.S. My moral compass says it's OK (let's not get into a debate on this here), especially if you're only doing this to "get a feel" - not even for study purposes!

Apparently they don't need luck as they are putting the onus on the ISP to police themselves, the government will just fine them for any illegal (once again another debate) activity therefore forcing ISP's to cancel provision to the offenders.

Being a Christian I would suggest I have a different moral compass to yours but like you say a different debate for a different place. wink

Wella · Expert

lor wrote:

I want to be Cassandra!

That's that sorted. Been waiting for someone to take up the mantle of Cassandra

Starting to feel lonely now

camster · Member

"Apparently they don't need luck as they are putting the onus on the ISP to police themselves, the government will just fine them for any illegal (once again another debate) activity therefore forcing ISP's to cancel provision to the offenders."

Like I said, good luck!

"Being a Christian I would suggest I have a different moral compass to yours but like you say a different debate for a different place."

Hmmm... Interesting!!! Seeing that I am a Christian myself!

-- Edited by camster on Monday 5th of April 2010 02:39:42 PM

lor · Guru

Wella wrote:

lor wrote:

I want to be Cassandra!

That's that sorted. Been waiting for someone to take up the mantle of Cassandra

Starting to feel lonely now

done!

AICB · Senior Member

Well, I'm not any sort of Christian, but even I know it's wrong.

The trouble is: Sage, as a company, comes across as being so arrogant that it's really hard to see past all that, to the fact that their software isn't really all that bad.

andy

Sue T · Veteran Member

Hi Sally

I am in the non ICB/IAB category but I did do a years course at college for Sage and also 2 RSA manual bookkeeping qualifications (which are only to Trial Balance). None of my clients are interested in my RSA qualifications but most of them want a Sage qualified bookkeeper. I have never had trouble getting work. I am registered with HMRC for Money Laundering.

The Sage qualification has been my best investment of time and cost comparitively little as I did it at a college one day a week.

Just got to join in the breeding Avatars. confuse

Sue

-- Edited by Sue T on Friday 9th of April 2010 01:51:07 PM

steve12 · Veteran Member

Hi Sue, I hope alot of people on this forum read your posting. The sage qualification is one of the best in the bookkeeping industry and one of the most recognised. Also, being registered with HMRC directly is just as good if not better than paying all the fees demanded by the ICB and really, from a professional point of view, getting very little in return.

Good luck
Steve.

Sue T · Veteran Member

Thanks Steve - forgot to say I got PI insurance too with no problem.

Sue