Uk accounts and tax returns - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

ayaz786amd · Member

Uk accounts and tax returns

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hello Ayed,

I assume that you a caught like so many ACCA's in the trap of not having the two years post qualification properly supervised experience required to set up in practice.

I will soon be in a similar position in that I've got more than the necessary experience but on the wrong side of taking the exams.

Are you actually based in the UK or Pakistan? I don't know what your being told but the market here isn't very good at the moment with a lot of qualified accountants unable to find employment. I know of two local accountants (ACA's!) who have given up and moved to Australia.

Friday this week we've got elections to find out who will be in power for the next five years. If it's another five years of Gordon Brown I can see a lot more people fleeing these shores for Australia, New Zealand, North America and Canada all of which seem quite accommodating for those with ACCA or ACA after their names.

Good luck with your search Ayed,

Shaun.

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:

Friday this week we've got elections to find out who will be in power for the next five years.

If you're wanting Mr Cameron as Prime Minister I suggest you vote on Thursday and not Friday. Unless you've already voted.

EDIT : This might be the first time I've voted since the vote on whether Scotland should have its own Assembly. I voted against it.

-- Edited by Peasie on Saturday 1st of May 2010 01:42:02 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Peasie.

Oops.

Luckily I've already voted by post.

Also got all the blue posters up in the Windows which so far has managed to repel all socialist canvassers... Well, it's either the posters or the heads on spikes with red and orange rosettes nailed to them at the end of my drive!

ayaz786amd · Member

HI Shamus,

I am located in Pakistan and i can provide my services at very low rate £4 per hour. My skills are good enough to do acccounts work. I have prepared accounts of about 500 small UK companies in three years. So, i am effiicent enough to do the work properly.

StuartAnder · Senior Member

Hi,

Im sorry but i have to share my opinion.
I think its outragous that you are qualified to ACCA and your offering your service for £4 an hour, Surely your skills are worth more than that, otherwise what was the point im studying.
And i dont think many businesses would like their financial information outsourced to pakistan, if it was my information i would be worried as to who got hold of it!!!

ayaz786amd · Member

Hi Staurt,

Outsourcing is very common these days. I have got my entire experience living in Pakistan of Uk clients because i am working in Outsourcing UK based Firm having head office in Uk. Due to currency rates difference this rate is acceptable for both client and freelancer or outsourcer. People in west are taking advantage of highly skilled chaep labour in asia and now physical existence does not matter, thanks to internet. There are thousands of websites where IT freelancers are providing there services to their foreign client but very few for accounts.

If i am qualified, skillful and want to earn then my intention is to get and retain customers for long term. So, i will never cheat my client because in this way i will loose my livelihood.

adi2402 · Senior Member

Hi Stuart,

Outsourcing is getting quite common, can't really agree with your 'outragous' comment i'm afraid.

There has obviously been thought given to this proposal and the charge out rate although we may not agree with it.

I would love to work with people that charge £4 an hour, our trainees, with no accounting knowledge, change about 8-10 times that. Thats probably why my billing tends to show losses every quarter :)

StuartAnder wrote:

Hi,

Im sorry but i have to share my opinion.
I think its outragous that you are qualified to ACCA and your offering your service for £4 an hour, Surely your skills are worth more than that, otherwise what was the point im studying.
And i dont think many businesses would like their financial information outsourced to pakistan, if it was my information i would be worried as to who got hold of it!!!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hello Ayed,
I appreciate where you are coming from on the £4 per hour. I've not been to Pakistan but I know from my own travels that in parts of Thailand £800 per annum in a very good income. People in the UK though have a different cost of living and minimum wage forbids anyone from working at less than £5.80 per hour.
The downside of this is that many UK companies are choosing to outsource work to other countries which have a lower cost of living and this is causing some consternation amongst the indigenous population.
I do not believe that skilled labour is being taken advantage of in Asia as the wages paid are right, and in many cases too high for the environment.
The problem that I do see is that western money which could well dry up will drive Asian inflation. You will see a strong rise in house prices around your commercial centres as has been witnessed in India.
It is already the case that India is becoming non commercially viable and Indian software houses have for some time been outsourcing to China and Mexico.
Pakistan may flourish for a time but in the long term it will be no better off than had the west not outsourced to them as prices will just keep rising in line with increased income.
The whole issue of outsourcing and immigration is one of the main concerns in the UK at the moment and a change of government this Thursday may see pressure for a change of attitude which could well see outsourcing of work being made less attractive than it has been for the past 13 years.
Then again, the change of government may have no effect at all upon the way that large companies outsource clients work often without the clients knowledge!
I do wish you the very best Ayed and appreciate that at the end of the day no matter which country one is in all that any of us are trying to do is provide for our families. The problems are between the attitudes of countries to the protection of their own people, not between accountants and bookkeepers such as ourselves.

Kindest regards,

Shaun.

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:

The whole issue of outsourcing and immigration is one of the main concerns in the UK at the moment and a change of government this Thursday may see pressure for a change of attitude which could well see outsourcing of work being made less attractive than it has been for the past 13 years.

Can you explain to an extreme thicko when it comes to politics (haven't voted in donkeys years) what changes could be made?

Rhianrach · Expert

adi2402 wrote:

Hi Stuart,

Outsourcing is getting quite common, can't really agree with your 'outragous' comment i'm afraid.

There has obviously been thought given to this proposal and the charge out rate although we may not agree with it.

I would love to work with people that charge £4 an hour, our trainees, with no accounting knowledge, change about 8-10 times that. Thats probably why my billing tends to show losses every quarter :)

StuartAnder wrote:

Hi,

Im sorry but i have to share my opinion.
I think its outragous that you are qualified to ACCA and your offering your service for £4 an hour, Surely your skills are worth more than that, otherwise what was the point im studying.
And i dont think many businesses would like their financial information outsourced to pakistan, if it was my information i would be worried as to who got hold of it!!!

Yeah Adi but all that happens is either we as a nation are reduced to a lower income, banks lose money country goes to the dogs, or Pakistan end up becoming better off for a while till the same happens to them as any westernised country.

If it was up to me which it isn't (until the gingers of this world take over which is another plan of mine) then each and every country is either able to do things within the confines of its own borders or we become a singular nation, no borders no different cost of living everything the same the world over.

If I was to make an honest opinion of ayaz's post I would first claim a bit of a troll and secondly spam, I would definately question legitimacy as there is no website or seemingly legit business associated, therefore I would be led to believe that there are no ACCA qualifications gained just a basic knowledge of accounting.

I personally call shenanigans, although I could try and put it better.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Peasie,
You didn't include the second part of what I said "Then again, the change of government may have no effect at all upon the way that large companies outsource clients work often without the clients knowledge!".
With outsourcing within Europe it is very much a level playing field with some countries having cheaper labour than others whilst there being no barriers to prevent outsourcing the other way around.
The same is not true of Asia where it's own people are often protected by their respective governments.
Changes could be introduced to restrict service industry trade with countries who restrict trade with us. That's not an outright ban on outsourcing which is the route being pursued by some American states but it's a step further towards true free trade.
The problem of course is that if trade restrictions by foreign governments were lifted overnight the UK and American banks swallow up many of their smaller Asian counterparts.
Why would they want to do that you may well ask? Well, the UK banks always need new markets in order to expand in order to keep investors interested.
Outsourcing creates a demand for houses close to commercial centres which forces up prices which creates demand for mortgages which the banks do not want going to foreign owned entities when they created the market.
So a conundrum, the banks want to outsource because it both reduces costs and creates a new market. The workers in other countries see higher wages but relate the money to existing prices which will not remain. Some UK workers lose their jobs but such creates a market where the skilled workers who remain just thankful of having a job are more adverse to asking for wage rises and the whole thing basically brings stability to the UK Market.
The whole thing is like one big game of kerplunk where if one removes the wrong straw then the whole lot will come tumbling down.
There are no easy answers to the problem that has been created by outsourcing. However, a change of government needs to make their presence known where as to continue with the encumbent government would just be a vote for allowing for another five years of the same which is not acceptable.
So, May the 6th should be a vote for change.

Wella · Expert

Am I missing something?

I haven't quite worked out exactly how outsourcing works, even to a UK based company?

The only way I can see an advantage is if all transactions are electronic and transfered electronically.

If not either some one has to manually enter the data or scan the documents to electronically transmit from the UK.

Or do they just post the original documents to the outsource company

If some one can explain it to me I'd be grateful

Bill

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Bill,

I have a similar problem with getting my head around what the advantage is of outsourcing the accounts work of small companies and to be honest I can't answer you.

Certainly most companies that I deal with want to physically see someone to get that warm and fuzzy feeling that the person that they're entrusting with their books can be seen to be competent.

I can see how IT outsourcing and even large company accounts outsourcing could be off-shored but outsourcing of accounting for smaller entities really eludes me.

On the documents side believe it or not there really are huge numbers of documents physically sent to India. It's not just people that are cheaper but also storage (Ever wondered where your cheques end up?).

If you think about it, if you had 10,000 documents that you needed scanning it's cheaper to fly them to India than to pay minimum wage for someone to scan them in the UK.

adi2402 · Senior Member

I think if you can get a 3yr acca to complete a set of accounts at the price of a YTS school leaver or whatever the scheme is nowaday can only help larger accountancy firms. Thankfully it does not appear that common in mid sized firms or we all might have struggle for work.

You mention below that clients like the personal contact. I totally agree but this would still be the case. Its exactly the same scenario as most firms currently have in place. Trainee staff complete the bulk of teh work, then it would be finished off by a senior and discussed. Alot of clients are not away of the trainee role.

I've read my last couple of posts and seem to be very Pro Outsourcing but i'm not and never will be as without trainee positions where would we all be.

Shamus wrote:

Certainly most companies that I deal with want to physically see someone to get that warm and fuzzy feeling that the person that they're entrusting with their books can be seen to be competent.

ayaz786amd · Member

Hi,

i can work for you at £4 per hour by remote access and it will be profitable for both of us.