Care Home - Sage Posting - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Julie · Senior Member

Care Home - Sage Posting

Rhianrach · Expert

What are the food reciepts for?

Julie · Senior Member

Hi,

Food receipts are for the residence, its a residential home.

Julie

Davey · Veteran Member

If they are for residents in the care home then Food Purchases i would post
to nc 5000 if using sage. As i consider it to be a Direct Cost.

Purchases Account.

-- Edited by Davey on Monday 3rd of May 2010 04:22:11 PM

Julie · Senior Member

Hi,

Thanks for that, thought perhaps it would be considered as an overhead, as although they are purchases they are not for resale.

Rhianrach · Expert

If you mean the food you buy for the residents to feed them then it would be in the 5000's (create a nominal called meals or kitchen supplies or something), my understanding of subsistence (which is minimal) is that it's for meals when your on the road kind of thing. The residents meals however are part of the running costs of the care home.

Rhianrach · Expert

Julie wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for that, thought perhaps it would be considered as an overhead, as although they are purchases they are not for resale.

Hmm good point although an overhead is an expense regardless of sales whereas the amount of food you buy is dependant on the amount of "customers".

Don't know where it would go then.

Julie · Senior Member

Hi Steve,

Yes its a tricky one - will sleep on it and mull it over in the morning before I go on-site.

Thanks for your replies.

Julie

Rhianrach · Expert

You do however have direct expenses which (for me ) are around 5050 5060 and some are in the 6000's these (for me) are killing charges and waste removal which are tied into the amount of customers but aren't specifically a purchase for re-sale. With this in mind I would be tempted to go for 5050 but as you may have guessed I'm no expert. hmm

There are also things like cost of sales labour )direct expense 6001 in sages standard chart of accounts) which again isn't a purchase for re-sale but is directly linked to the finished product (caring for the residents, feeding them is a direct part of caring for them).

I'm pretty much thinking out loud here to be honest and probably not helping much evileye

Seems strange talking about old folk as products but I suppose from the outlook of a book-keeper they are confuse

-- Edited by Rhianrach on Monday 3rd of May 2010 05:22:45 PM

-- Edited by Rhianrach on Monday 3rd of May 2010 05:26:17 PM

-- Edited by Rhianrach on Monday 3rd of May 2010 05:28:19 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Julie,

this is a direct cost associated with the number of clients the care home services.

It is a necessary direct expense without which the care service could not be provided so as Davey suggests it should be part of the cost of sales.

Hope this helps,

Shaun.

P.S. it's definitely not subsistence

Peasie · Expert

Rhianrach wrote:

Seems strange talking about old folk as products but I suppose from the outlook of a book-keeper they are

I'm just worried about those "killing charges" - what on earth are those?

Rhianrach · Expert

Shamus wrote:

Hi Julie,

this is a direct cost associated with the number of clients the care home services.

It is a necessary direct expense without which the care service could not be provided so as Davey suggests it should be part of the cost of sales.

Hope this helps,

Shaun.

P.S. it's definitely not subsistence

I was just moving on to that damn it, wink

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Steve,

I know what you mean about thinking of people as products or more to the point revenue generating units as they generate revenue rather than being something held for resale.

Brings a whole new meaning to expiry dates doesn't it!

In banking one of the things that took me some time to get my head around is that cash is referred to as stock!

Rhianrach · Expert

Peasie wrote:

Rhianrach wrote:

Seems strange talking about old folk as products but I suppose from the outlook of a book-keeper they are
I'm just worried about those "killing charges" - what on earth are those?

Killing charges, I work for Spectre and they charge assassinations out per head.

Waste disposal is obviously cleaning up any trace of said assassination.

It's a lucrative business.

(Actually it's a charge for killing cattle by the abbatoir but don't tell Rob)

Rhianrach · Expert

Shamus wrote:

Hi Steve,

I know what you mean about thinking of people as products or more to the point revenue generating units as they generate revenue rather than being something held for resale.

Brings a whole new meaning to expiry dates doesn't it!

In banking one of the things that took me some time to get my head around is that cash is referred to as stock!

The way I see it is your selling a service and food is part of the finished product which is the service of caring for your old folk.

I wonder if we all have an expiry date stamped on us somewhere? hmm

I can see what you mean about cash and stock, I find a lot of this interpretation quite mind bending sometimes, confuse

Peasie · Expert

Rhianrach wrote:

(Actually it's a charge for killing cattle by the abbatoir but don't tell Rob)

Just when everyone was talking about a care home and then these "killing charges" appear from nowehere. I just hope google doesn't record my searches as they must have seemed a bit weird a few minutes ago. Actually google will record my searches - I just hope they don't pay any attention to them.

Peasie · Expert

Rhianrach wrote:

I wonder if we all have an expiry date stamped on us somewhere?

I'm beyond my expiry date then as I'm sure I have the 6th June 2006 on my head.

Rhianrach · Expert

Peasie wrote:

Rhianrach wrote:

(Actually it's a charge for killing cattle by the abbatoir but don't tell Rob)

Just when everyone was talking about a care home and then these "killing charges" appear from nowehere. I just hope google doesn't record my searches as they must have seemed a bit weird a few minutes ago. Actually google will record my searches - I just hope they don't pay any attention to them.

Well you have to make room in the home somehow, and when people can't afford to keep their parents well...........................

Julie · Senior Member

Many thanks Guys for all your responses,

I will put them into the 5000`s

Love this site, where else would you get a bunch of number crunchers discussing the expiry date of people in bookkeeping terms !!!

Julie

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Steve,

Personally when it comes to caring for old folk just send me off to Thailand where the old folk remain in the family and are looked after by the young.

The whole idea of shoving someone off into a home when they've past their use by date seems so awful.

However, I suppose that our's is not to question societies attitudes or disagree with what our clients do, it's just to ensure that they keep a good set of books and stay on the straight and narrow as far as company and tax legislation goes.

I suppose that it's like lawyers who defend people that they know to be guilty must look only at the application of the law and not the crime.

Unfortunately I don't think that I could divorce myself so far from some clients businesses and even though I'm not a veggie there is no way that I would represent an abattoir... I don't mind eating meat but I don't want to profit from any part of the process of killing anything.

Well, my moral standpoint makes sense to me anyway.

-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 3rd of May 2010 05:58:43 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Julie,

I think that we're a pretty unique bunch even in bookkeeping terms!

Number crunchers. Love it. My eleven year old asked me what a bean counter was the other day as some of the other children in his class had referred to me as one... Can think of a lot worse things that a bunch of eleven year old's could refer to the parents of one of their number as!

Rhianrach · Expert

Shamus wrote:

Personally when it comes to caring for old folk just send me off to Thailand where the old folk remain in the family and are looked after by the young.

The whole idea of shoving someone off into a home when they've past their use by date seems so awful.

However, I suppose that our's is not to question societies attitudes or disagree with what our clients do, it's just to ensure that they keep a good set of books and stay on the straight and narrow as far as company and tax legislation goes.

In my Grandads case it was a case of him not being able to deal with his wifes alzhiemers at home any more so a care home was a good option but I see what you mean, some people tend to like to get their folks out of the way, bit like hiring a nanny for your kids in a way.

Unfortunately I don't think that I could divorce myself so far from some clients businesses and even though I'm not a veggie there is no way that I would represent an abattoir... I don't mind eating meat but I don't want to profit from any part of the process of killing anything.

It's a butchers but yeah I see your point again, I however wouldn't have a problem except for my religious standpoint, I'm as yet undecided whether it would be seen as a sin to be involved in the killing process of any living creature.

Julie · Senior Member

Wow Shamus, very thought provoking.

Have not really thought about clients in such a way before. I just see them as you say `a set of books`, my job is to ensure they are in order etc.,

I have been recently working within an organisation that deals with young adults who self harm. Its an open plan office, I go in once a month and sometimes come home in tears after hearing some of the tutors giving their session feedback to the directors. It is a very humbling experience.

But unfortunately, I am not in a position to turn down work, so my views/emotions have to be kept in check if I am to stay in business.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Steve,

I'm quite Buddhist in my outlook and have brought my boy up to basically think about life from the viewpoint of whatever life he takes as in the next life you may well be that creature.

That one actually bit me on the bum a bit as when my boy was much younger he went and pulled the legs off a daddy long legs then I had the problem of him having recurring nightmares about being a daddy long legs knocking on the door for me to let him in but of course I couldn't hear him because he was so small!

Oh well, you try your best as a parent but even with the best intentions we occasionally get it wrong.

Hi Julie,

fully appreciate your standpoint. I'm sure that there will be companies that you encounter where you draw the line. For the most part I'm like yourself but there are just some lines that I would not cross, it's just that everyone's line in the sand is at a different place.

Hope that Rob doesn't read this thread or he'll think that he's converted me to tree hugging veggiedom.

lor · Guru

you can't leave old people out my mum walks really slow, but we have just had a weekend away with her and every 2 miles was like walking 10 miles lol, but I love my mum so much! It was worth the weekend away!

RobH · Expert

Hi Shaun, I always knew there was hope for you!!!

I have turned clients away for being Ostich farmers, but explained it was just something I wasn't happy with personally and also a couple where the man had left his wife and the new wife was only interested in reducing the new husband's income so his children from the first marriage was entitled to less csa. That has happened twice, it annoys me that the men are so weak and get bullied into not caring about their kids.

Apart from that, defintely and unequivocably, direct expenses!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Rob,

We'll just keep it our little secret though!

Personally I don't think that I would ever turn away a farmer. Take the example of a dairy farmer. Beef cattle and veal are a side effect of milk production but there is nothing amiss with the production of milk.

It's difficult to have one moral standpoint on this that covers all situations.

My line is abattoirs and lumber companies (yes, I'm also a secret tree hugger) but I fully appreciate the line that anyone draws as we all set ourselves moral boundaries which are personal to ourselves

semsley · Guru

I do two care homes and food is definitely 5000. I also make one for medical and toiletries (5001), clothing (some homes buy for them) (5002). But I put books, games, cd's and other "entertainment" type stuff in 7000 range.

Marky65 · Guru

Hi

Sorry I missed this post.

I have a couple of care homes and I deal with the expenditure in the same way as Sheila

Regards

Mark

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Mark,

Well, that's yourself, Sheila, Rob and Myself all in agreement so even if it wasn't true before that makes it a fact!