ICB Self Assessment manual - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Peasie · Expert

ICB Self Assessment manual

attilabenko · Guru

Hi Peasie,

I would think this book will be enough to pass the ICB exam and I would think they assume what sort of clients you have and the book covers that. The Big Book is a guide for taxation for tax practitioners so I would think it is more than what you need for ICB SA exam but I am still waiting for my copy from HMRC. Hopefully others will be able to tell more about it...

Wella · Expert

Hi Peasie

I am only guessing here but I would think the ICB book is more of a text book format, with worked examples and covers the basics.

The HMRC book is a guide through the full returns for all types of earnings. Things like Lloyd's Names and Minister of Religion, and other more obscure earnings, as well your box standard, self employment, interest earnings, property income, dividends etc; which I suspect is as far as the ICB book will go.

The HMRC book is a bit hard going (a bit like reading a telephone directory) and does not contain everything but it does direct you to help sheets on the website. It will get you through just about everything for a SA return. It is also current for the tax year in question, which the ICB book will not necessarily be, unless it is updated every year?

Bill

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Next week apparently the ICB are going to launch their selling ice to Eskimo's service.

Yes, the Eskimo's could go out and get the ice themselves for no charge but the ICB ice is smaller and easier to manage. It's also only £4 per cube rather than the normal £6 per cube so it's a bargain!!!

I know, I know, I'm a grumpy old cynic!

attilabenko · Guru

Just had a thought, standard price of the book is £60 but if you are ICB member they give you a discount so it,s £40. You only can take the exam if you are member...so who is buying it for £60?

Peasie · Expert

attilabenko wrote:

Just had a thought, standard price of the book is £60 but if you are ICB member they give you a discount so it,s £40. You only can take the exam if you are member...so who is buying it for £60?

The eskimos?

attilabenko · Guru

:) these icb people they always find the gap in the market...

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I'm suddenly not feeling quite so alone as a cynic!

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:

I'm suddenly not feeling quite so alone as a cynic!

I'm cynical as I don't see how they can cover that much in around 85 pages. Even the smallest of businesses can throw up strange scenarios. I do the wages for the family business and they have a situation where holiday pay is derived from a holiday credit fund the business pays into every four weeks. This holiday pay is not subject to national insurance nor pension deductions. I've downloaded Payroll Manager and it won't accept this - it wants to deduct the pension from this as well. So this is obviously a bit different from the norm. So if you throw sick pay, maternity pay and whatever else into the equation 85 pages doesn't seem a lot. Unless they use a very small font.

attilabenko · Guru

You are never alone...

I suppose if I don,t want to wait 2 month for HMRC to send the Big Book to me (registration as SA agent,etc) than I have the option to pay £40 to ICB and get it delivered next week.

Ok, qeuestion came to my mind just now. Since ICB has this SA qualification I am not allowed to offer SA tax returns without it? Was I allowed to offer it before (i don,t know this one)? Just thinking what,s next? Will they come up with any new qualifications what i might offered before but i will not be able to unless i take an other exam? Maybe it is a good idea to start with chartered accountacy asap because at the end icb qualifications will add up to the same price and I am still going to be a bookkeeper?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Attila,

actually a very good question and the answer is that until they came out with the self assessment exam you were allowed to do self assessment without a qualification.

The ICB is the only body that requires you to take an exam in self assessment rather than such being bundled in with other tax papers as part of the main qualification (as is the case with AAT, IAB, etc.).

This seems similar to the way that until the riles changed you could practice with only the manual or computerised side of the qualification but suddenly existing members founds that their practicing ability was to become null and void as the goal posts had been moved.

The only problem with going down the accountancy path is the restrictions that get placed on what you have been doing up to now. For example, if you joined the ACCA as a student you would only be able to offer bookkeeping to trial balance, payroll and VAT whereas with the ICB you can prepare accounts.

As I've advised on another thread, take a serious look at CIMA as well as the resstrictions are not quite so draconian as the ACCA.

I don't know what restrictions CFAB place on you if any. Still interested in your experiences if you go forwards with that route.

attilabenko · Guru

They don,t place any restrictions, it seems to be a qualification for nothing else than to put it in your cv or use it as entry/exemption to the first 6 modules of ACA.( i don,t know where else could i use it for anything) Well it is a cheap option to me to see if i really like/want to go down the route of chartered accountancy.
ICB is worrying me about all this, what if they come up tomorrow with you can,t do vat returns without their whatever diploma in vat returns?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

ICB only have the credibility that we give them.

Nobody beyond those taking their exams and their training providers seems to have heard of them. (certainly employers seem completely oblivious to the qualification).

If everyone just walked away from membership tomorrow it would leave as much of a hole in the profession as the hole that would be left by taking your hand out of a bucket of water.

When I joined I thought that they were going to represent me but it seems that all that they have done is take money and keep moving the goal posts seemingly for no other reason but to be able to take even more money.

Who knows what the next burning hoop will be that they will want members to jump through. Personally they can do what they like as I will not take another exam with them regardless of whatever they might come up with.

My opinion might change if I start seeing job ads for ICB qualified bods but to be honest, I don't see that happening any time soon.

attilabenko · Guru

Hi Shamus,

I,ve seen one the other day. Well it was on the ICB website jobs section, so I assumed they wanted ICB qualified...First one since last August on the site.

attilabenko · Guru

I can see a new ICB qualification coming to get more revenue from us ( I hope I am not giving ideas to ICB with this post).
This is from ICAEW:
The International Accounting Standards Board (IASB) has published an IFRS for use by SMEs, which is a self contained standard tailored for the needs and capabilities of smaller businesses.
The full standards have been reduced by over 85% through the simplification of the principles in full IFRS and a reduction in the extensive disclosure requirements.
The implementation of the IFRS for SMEs and the future of UK GAAP are linked, and our new learning and assessment programme will help practitioners and organisations prepare for the changes that this new standard brings.

I believe it is just matter of time...I better sign up for the learning programme with ICAEW now.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Attila,

The IAB have already got a level 4 diploma in International Financial Reporting Standards.

The International equivalent of the FRSSE has been the one thing holding up a full move away from the UK GAAP to IFRS so with this announcement it seems that the planned move in 2012 is on track.

If you decide to buy a book on IFRS I can't think which one to recommend but I would suggest that you avoid A Student's Guide to International Financial Reporting Standards which I found way too basic.

Wiley and Ernst & Young books always get good write ups but they're reassuringly expensive. That said, I've got loads of books on Auditing but the only one that I refer to is the APB standards and guidance 2006 which was seriously expensive but was aimed at grown ups and gives full definitions of the standards rather than selective exerts aimed at getting you through an exam so it is no doubt the case that you get what you pay for.

On the ICB front I think that your above that qualification Attila and following on from your other messages I would certainly think about upgrading to one of the accountancy routes nowish rather than taking IFRS exams at lower levels especially as with the ICB it's unlikely that you would be able to use the qualification for exemptions when you do move up.

Talk later,

Shaun.

attilabenko · Guru

You see what i am worried about is I can get whatever IFRS qualification I want unless it is from ICB they will restrict me in practice what i can or cannot do...we know them, they will(well,not just yet, they haven,t got their qualification yet) even if i really go down ACA/ACCA route I would have to stay with ICB to be able to practise - or I can go to IAB next year.
Why is that I trust so much in the Institute representing me?
I was not like that, you and your comments did this to me!!!!

Hehe I just found the cowboy:

-- Edited by attilabenko on Sunday 6th of June 2010 03:47:35 PM

attilabenko · Guru

About IFRS for SME I think there might will be a market after all the changes happen as a lot of people will have no idea about IFRSSME and what does it mean for them (it is going to be different to IFRS although it is based on it) so if i can get the knowledge and qualification in time i might will be able to make some money on it?