I have a feeling this post will be quite long so I apologise now if I confuse and/or bore anyone.
I am currently serving in the Royal Navy as an electrical engineer, however, after over 15 years I want to break away from the sometimes suffocating clutches of the services and start afresh in a brand new career.
I have always had a huge love of figures and finance, and I have spent many a moment 'dreaming' of owning my own business. The part that excited me the most about that was managing the books of said business/s. I have wanted to learn more about bookkeeping during my time in the RN but I have never really had the time to explore what avenues there are, nor have I really had the time to then study, so I have never bothered.
I am now blessed with an excellent opportunity to learn a new profession as the RN will facilitate resettlement time/financial help toward courses to start me on the way to my life outside the forces.
There are lots of amazing and informative websites out there (I especially love this one) that I have been lost in for the last few weeks, and to be honest I feel rather saturated and a little confused as to what the better options available to me are?
If I explain my thoughts and desires would someone 'in the know' be able to advise, or at least make sense of the confusion inside my head please and tell me I am thinking along the right tracks or not?
I have financial commitments that I MUST meet each month therefore I have to give myself the best chance of employment the moment I leave, though I have savings which could cover commitments for a couple of months if I wasn't immediately successful.
My final 'paid' day (or end of contract) is mid January 2011, however, with my accrued holiday plus resettlement time I will be off work from mid October. This gives me 3 whole months of which I was hoping to use to study. (In theory 8 hours a day, 5 days a week)
Here goes....
I love the idea of being a bookkeeper, although with no experience I don't think it would be overly wise to start my own business from scratch. I would prefer to gain experience and then make a decision to go it alone, which I could do part time until an adequate client base is reached.
After studying various job websites I have found no bookkeeping jobs, and it seems most bookkeepers work alone? (ie: take no other bookkeeping staff on) Is this the norm? I am assuming that for me to gain adequate experience which would help me in the future working alone I would have to work for a large company in the accounts department (or similar), and not, as I would like, for a small bookkeeping practice?
If this is the case I have also realised that all of the accountancy jobs I have seen offered, none have specified requirements for any ICB quals. After reading the recent posts on here referring to ICB I see that outside of bookkeeping these qualifications aren't really recognised? To that end should I ignore the ICB courses completely and concentrate my efforts on obtaining the AAT qualifications?
This way I can not only learn bookkeeping, but also obtain qualifications that will make me more desirable to potential employers and thus increase my chances of employment in January. These qualifications could be built upon in the future to continue personal development, if I choose.
With the time available to me I believe I could pass the level 2 and 3 AAT courses prior to Christmas, and potentially have started studying level 4 as I come to leave the RN. (I have calculated these timings with reference to the duration Kaplan estimate for each of its courses)
Do you think I am on the right road with the AAT? Is there any advice, or something I have missed that you could tell me?
Thanks to all who read this and thanks in advance for any reply.
If you want to run your own business I personally (others may disagree) would say ICB would be a better route, as they specialise in start up bookkeeping businesses with no previous experience. They are also a little more flexible with regards to examinations.
If you wanted to go for employment, or go on to become an accountant then AAT would probably better suit you.
Having said that, you can go on from ICB into accountancy, or after doing AAT you can gain exemptions from most of the ICB syllabus.
Might be an idea to find out AAT examination dates and deadlines for entry as I cannot find them on their website, as this will affect how quickly you can complete the course.
Hope that helps.
-- Edited by ICBUK on Friday 6th of August 2010 04:59:37 PM
Might be an idea to find out AAT examination dates and deadlines for entry as I cannot find them on their website, as this will affect how quickly you can complete the course.
I was going to make a similar point. If the AAT only have there exams 3 times a year like some bodies then it may not fall into line with your own deadlines. The ICB exams are now on demand and are taken at the same places that do the driving theory tests.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
My initial thoughts were to study ICB L1-3, confident I have the time available to pass L1 & L2 and possibly L3 before January, thus leaving the RN qualified in bookkeeping. As ICBUK wrote I would be qualified for bookkeeping alone and therefore limited to only 1 area of employment, and although bookkeeping is where my heart is, I don't believe I should start my own business with absolutely no experience. I have to earn moderate wages within the first few months of leaving and I imagine it would take longer than that to get a business started and earning enough to sustain my current (moderate) responsibilties.
On saying that I have made a slight nuisance of myself to the local bookkeepers by telephoning them for advice, and one rather nice lady did say that she is now at the point where she has to turn people away and would, once i was qualified, send them my way. As adorable as that is I couldn't rely on it but it does give me a boost of confidence that these people who I have never met before would be so helpful! Another lady agreed to allow me to spend some time with her during the midpoint of my studies to gain an insight.
I would love to take the plunge and go for it and the thought really does excite me, but I am very apprehensive and it worries me incase I won't be able to bring in enough money. Plus, having never had a business I wouldn't know where to start or what pitfalls to be aware of? This is where I think (I may be wrong so please correct me) the AAT qualifications would stand me in 'better' stead giving me a qualification that is desired by employers, albeit qualifications I would only use for the short term until in a position to start a business.
The exam dates for the AAT are also a concern of mine. I called Kaplan this afternoon and although I wasn't given specific dates I think several L2 exams are in September and October, and L3 exams in October and November. This could mean me studying L3 modules prior to sitting L2 exams, which if I am honest I don't like the idea of doing that. On the other hand the ICB 'on demand' would be perfect and very convenient for my situation.
If you want to gain experience by working either for an accountancy practice or in an accounts dept in industry AAT is the only way to go. An alternative would be OCR (formerly RSA) which would help in gaining you work at the introductory level. Employers do not recognise (or know of ICB or IAB).
I would go down the route of AAT, its the most recognised one out there adn would put you in good stead for a job. I would give AAT a ring regarding the exams as it has just changed and when I spoke to Premier Training the other day regarding this they said that everything was changing and they didn't have all the details yet. Give Premier Training a call as well, they are an alternative to Kaplan.
I know that the AAT exams are now not just twice a year they are more frequent.
After much deliberation, and I do mean A LOT!, I think AAT is the only way for me to progress under the circumstances.
The exam dates, prices and number of exams etc are proving very difficult to find information on so I wrote to AAT a moment ago. I did, however, find this on their website:
"Computer based assessments (CBAs) All assessments for the revised qualification will be CBAs, replacing the current format of exams and skills tests. CBAs directly reflect the practical workplace tasks that you currently perform, or will perform in your career.
Also, you can take your CBAs when it suits you and your training provider, rather than having to wait for our traditional exam times to roll around (June and December)."
I've underlined that sentence as it seems to suit my needs perfectly, although where the exams can be sat I have no idea? Hopefully I will hear back from them tomorrow and then book the courses.
Now the decision is made I am getting very excited at the prospect of studying!
I was told by Premier training that they are going to be computer based and not just twice a year which is good.
There are a number of places to sit the exams, once you have enrolled as a student then asked what your nearest centre is, if you go the Kaplan route they may have a centre near you, or if you go Premier training route you may be able to take it at a Kaplan centre as an external studen, AAT will be abel to advise on this. I take mine at a BBP place as an external student, as Premier is miles away from me (about 4 hours away),
Its not weird studying, I always say never again once I've sat an exam, but I'm still going and planing the next route, some how I just can't help myself!
HTH Amanda
-- Edited by Amanda on Sunday 8th of August 2010 10:02:39 PM
-- Edited by Amanda on Sunday 8th of August 2010 10:06:20 PM
Thanks for the advice. What worries me is that I keep finding conflicting information about how many exams there are for each level? 1 site has mentioned there is 1 exam (or CBA?) For level 2, 2 exams for level 3 and 3 exams for level 4. Other sites say each module is covered by an exam and that each of these exams costs in the region of £40. That would mean an awful lot of exams and a rather large, additional outlay after paying already for the courses themselves. I am lucky in as much that the majority of my course fees are taken care of by the RN. I will pay my exam fees myself so would still like to know, so I can plan more than anything, how many there are and how much they will cost?
Are you studying AAT? If so where are you up to and are you on the NVQ side or the new QCF?
I know what you mean about the studying bug. I feel like a sponge at the moment and want to soak up as much knowledge as possible. Even though I've decided not to take the ICB I've still bought 'Practical Bookkeeping' (beginner and intermediate) so I can self study whilst I wait for the AAT to come through, and I'll be taking a PRINCE2 exam in October. I may even add Kaplans SAGE course to my package as well?
Have you tried calling the AAT for this information?
If you were thinking of going self employed, and as you have bought the book you could do the ICB Level 1 (online) and Level 2 (on demand in one of 5000 centres worldwide) (£25+£55).
Then you could get a Practice License from the ICB who will give you all the support you need to begin your new career.
I am studying AAT at the moment, via the old route (not the new QCF) and you are right in what you say about the exams. Theres 1 exam for foundation, 2 exams at intermediate and 3 at technician level. Then there is also simulations which form the rest of the course, I am currently studying intermediate and there are 3 simulations (so 5 parts to pay out for). These are tests which cover more information redgarding the workplace and and work based situations.
I think you are finding conflicting information, as the AAT as you know has recently changed to QCF so its all been changed around.
I would phone the AAT, or failing that maybe try Preimer Training (my chosen training provider) as they have been very helpful to me in the past.
ICB - could you confirm that I would be able to sit the ICB exams you mention without having to purchase the coursework first?
I am also going to buy the SAGE course that Kaplan advertise and the salesman assured me that upon completion of that I would be qualified enough to sit the ICB computerised exams, LI and LII, if I so wish.
Due to the payment method used by the RN I will not receive any course material until at least early September - enough time to make a fair start on the ICB book!
Amy - you haven't confused me any more than I already was :) however I have had a reply from an email I sent to AAT with reference to the exams -
"All of the assessments are now computer based tests & projects. CBA's must be taken at an approved centre & they can be sat at any time, in arrangement with the assessment centre. There are no longer paper based exam sittings in June & December each year. Detail about the number of assessments per level can be found on the back page of the attached student guide.
The cost of the AAT Accounting Qualification CBA's which are available from September 2010 are:
Level 2 Certificate in Accounting £30 Level 3 Diploma in Accounting £33 Level 4 Diploma in Accounting £35
Training providers may also charge a small admin fee when you sit each assessment"
After a quick look on the back of the student guide there are:
Level 2 - 5 CBA's (2 of which are projects) Level 3 - 7 CBA's (2 of which are projects) Level 4 - 6 CBA's (1 definite project and 1 potential project depending upon the optional units chosen?)
Hi Wayne I am also a career changer from childcare. And I decided accountancy/bookkeeping was the route for me.
I started with the ICB I have done there level 1 basic bookkeeping, which was an exam sent out by paper to my home and sent back in two weeks. And I did the computerised exam- which was sent out to my house and returned in two weeks.
I got 91% and 98% respectively.
I then done their level 3 diploma in payroll management and got 93%. Again this was sent out to me by paper and sent back in 2 weeks. I learnt how to do the payroll exam by studying the sage 50 payroll books. So I think they can help with ICB exams.
I also did a course with the OU. It is called an introduction to bookkeeping and accounting. If you pass this course (must get a mark over 40) you can gain membershio from the IAB (International Association of Bookkeepers) You would then have the letters MIAB after your name.
Hi Wayne I am also a career changer from childcare. And I decided accountancy/bookkeeping was the route for me.
I started with the ICB I have done there level 1 basic bookkeeping, which was an exam sent out by paper to my home and sent back in two weeks. And I did the computerised exam- which was sent out to my house and returned in two weeks.
I got 91% and 98% respectively.
I then done their level 3 diploma in payroll management and got 93%. Again this was sent out to me by paper and sent back in 2 weeks. I learnt how to do the payroll exam by studying the sage 50 payroll books. So I think they can help with ICB exams.
I also did a course with the OU. It is called an introduction to bookkeeping and accounting. If you pass this course (must get a mark over 40) you can gain membershio from the IAB (International Association of Bookkeepers) You would then have the letters MIAB after your name.
Good luck with what ever you choose.
Kaz
Apologies for hijacking your thread, but Kaz can I ask a few questions?
When you say they sent the papers out and you sent them back for the exam, was that straight through the ICB, or a provider? I can only seem to find study courses instead of just the tests, unless that was what you did?
Did you find the OU course of any use? I was thinking about doing that myself, but still not sure!
Once you register with ICB as a student member you can book the exams on their website. You will have to do this even if you take a course with any of the training providers.
ICB - If, sometime in the future, I feel confident to sit an ICB examination do I need to complete a course first or can I just become a student member and book an exam, as Attila suggested?
Kaz - congrats in your success in the exams you have sat so far. Is it your intention to start your own book-keeping services upon qualification?
I would love to but come January I need to be earning and can't risk the uncertainty of becoming self employed, especially with no experience whatsoever. It will definitely be something I approach in the future.
I am currently awaiting confirmation for the approval of my learning credits and then I can go ahead and book the AAT courses. In the interim I have been studying the ICB 'Practical Bookkeeping' book and so far it is going really well. A few things are causing me frustration, 1 which is really a case of retraining my brain to think differently to credits and debits. Other than that everything is surprisingly logical and progress is being made :D I love it!
Thanks for the info...I thought that is what you meant. If I complete the study book before receiving my AAT coursework I will definitely take the ICB exams whilst I wait. (If the practice proves I am able of course)
I just read your original post, many apologies for being a bit slow off the mark with this one.
I appreciate where your coming from over your existing financial commitments but it may be a good idea to seriously review the situation to determin if there is anything that isn't as essential as you think it is. For example insurances that you don't need?
When I did a review earlier this year I realised that my identity protection insurance which cost me £5.99 per month was also included in my bank account. Also travel insurance was included with my credit cards. Only small things but they all mount up.
If you have children you will be entitled to more working family tax credit if your income goes down although this probably won't compensate for your drop in salary.
Anyway, that's not answering the actual question. I'll come to the answer from the perspective of what you are attempting to achieve rather than the advice already received as to how to get there.
Redundancy looms and like it's a sinking ship you're looking to jump to another one before it disappears completely. Unfortunately the existing ships sinking too fast and the new one is still too far away.
The problem with your calculations is that it assumes that learning 8 hours a day, 5 days a week will turn reading into knowledge but unfortunately when it comes to bookkeeping and accounts the laws of diminishing returns are all too evident in over study.
I think that for what you are attempting to achieve you have made an excellent choice in the AAT (ICB / IAB would have been more for if you were looking to go down the self employed route but I'm reading this that you need to take the fastest route to getting some regular income from this).
As part qualified AAT contact employment agencies such as Reed about any temp positions that they have available.
The more papers that you have under your belt the better positioned that you will be to find the work of course and I wouldn't start applying until you have passed all of the foundation level.
For starters calculate on the roles being minimum wage Sales and Purchase ledger stuff but the more temp positions that you can get under your belt the more employable you become and the higher rates will materialise.
I believe that it's much better to have someone with experience of the systems of ten different companies than someone who has worked only on one system. Unfortunately you will also encounter the opposite argument from some employers who are not happy to employ on a permanent basis people who have flitted from one company to another. Neither approach is perfect but temping is definitely your best way into a career in finance.
The Reed website is a good starting point but try to talk to someone at Reed and go in to get yourself known by them and let them realise that your learning at your own expense, that you enjoy bookkeeping and that you are willing to work to gain experience. (don't emphasise the money side, it's the experience that matters. Get that and the money will follow).
I wish you the very best in your job search and your exams. If any of the above comes accross badly it wasn't meant that way. I'm just trying to be honest and constructive.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
If any of the above comes accross badly it wasn't meant that way. I'm just trying to be honest and constructive.
Hi Shaun
Not even slightly 'badly'. In actual fact I appreciate you taking the time to not only read my post but to go to such length in your reply.
In an ideal world I would love nothing more than to start my own book-keeping practice, however, in the real world I personally couldn't start something like that with absolutely no experience, and do so with confidence. I would like to learn the 'ins and outs' of something from the inside first, ie - looking in from behind my desk whilst working for someone else. I believe experience is the key.
Shamus wrote:
...I'm reading this that you need to take the fastest route to getting some regular income from this.
Ideally, yes, but I do have several options available to me from my time within the RN. For starters I am qualified in electrical engineering to foundation degree level and have a level 4 in management. Being quite frank - engineering bores me and I want to get out of it, however I realise that if needs must then it is something i can fall back on, and with my management skills, start earning somewhere in the region I am now. I also realise that I can't really use my management qualification with my (hopefully) soon to be acheived AAT foundation/diploma, although I believe it will look good on my CV. It may also work against me if applying for junior positions so I will have to be careful when applying for jobs.
The opportunity I have in front of me right now may never happen again and after years of wanting a change in career/direction I have to embrace this with both arms. I will put 100% into my studies and charge 'balls out' to achieve it. I am optimistic about this but I am enough of a realist to accept there may be some things that may prevent this that i cannot influence. For now it's AAT all the way (Once I get my coursework) and 'play it by ear'
I have a feeling this post will be quite long so I apologise now if I confuse and/or bore anyone.
I am currently serving in the Royal Navy as an electrical engineer, however, after over 15 years I want to break away from the sometimes suffocating clutches of the services and start afresh in a brand new career.
I have always had a huge love of figures and finance, and I have spent many a moment 'dreaming' of owning my own business. The part that excited me the most about that was managing the books of said business/s. I have wanted to learn more about bookkeeping during my time in the RN but I have never really had the time to explore what avenues there are, nor have I really had the time to then study, so I have never bothered.
Thanks to all who read this and thanks in advance for any reply.
Wayne
Hi,
Thanks very much for this comment. It help me to think about my ideals.
Tks again and pls keep posting.
-- Edited by vegetablevn on Saturday 2nd of October 2010 05:05:17 PM
Thanks for the advice. What worries me is that I keep finding conflicting information about how many exams there are for each level? 1 site has mentioned there is 1 exam (or CBA?) For level 2, 2 exams for level 3 and 3 exams for level 4. Other sites say each module is covered by an exam and that each of these exams costs in the region of £40. That would mean an awful lot of exams and a rather large, additional outlay after paying already for the courses themselves. I am lucky in as much that the majority of my course fees are taken care of by the RN. I will pay my exam fees myself so would still like to know, so I can plan more than anything, how many there are and how much they will cost?
Are you studying AAT? If so where are you up to and are you on the NVQ side or the new QCF?
I know what you mean about the studying bug. I feel like a sponge at the moment and want to soak up as much knowledge as possible. Even though I've decided not to take the ICB I've still bought 'Practical Bookkeeping' (beginner and intermediate) so I can self study whilst I wait for the AAT to come through, and I'll be taking a PRINCE2 exam in October. I may even add Kaplans SAGE course to my package as well?
There's just not enough hours in a day!
Wayne,
Here's an on-line resource when you can take a revision test for your exam in October, Prince2 exam it's not easy, but let me know how you fare. We could compare results. Don't worry, I'm sure there's only exam for Prince2.
