After ICB ? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

jerohm · Veteran Member

After ICB ?

Amanda · Expert

HI,

If you ring AAT they can tell you if you have any exemptions with your ICB and French qualifications. AAT is very good for Employment and ACCA is very good too.

When Shauns on here next he can tell you all about ACCA.

HTH
A

Alfred · Senior Member

Hi

In my knowledge I would recomend that you go into the ACCA next as you may get some exemptions from your prior studies and this is usually the requirement if you want to work in practice.

jerohm · Veteran Member

Many thanks for your answers.

What about ICAEW ? Computer Based Assessments are sit in Pearson Vue Center, quite easy for someone like me who will travel a lot in France and in the UK :)

jerohm · Veteran Member

Hello all :)

After having made some searches by myself, it seems ICB is quite the better way for me. It is amazing how it is a practical and "right to the point" way of studying bookkeeping, so different from my studies in France, where we have a (too) great part of theorical studies.

By the way, my French Diploma (DECF) give me exemptions for ACCA from F1 to F9 papers (I have noticed no exemption about ACA... Amazing!) So I would be silly if I wouldn't choose ACCA path :)

But at the moment, I need some adjustement of my French knowledges to better understand the English way of considering businesses, and ICB seems to provide exactly what I need :)

So here's my study plan :

- ICB Level 1 with Kaplan (pass)
- ICB Level 2 manual with Kaplan (hope to sit for it in November)
- ICB Level 2 compu with Kaplan (hope to sit by the end of October, just before I settle in London)
- ICB Level 3 manual alone, with Kaplan books (hope to sit by the end of January)
- ICB Level 3 compu alone (if I can find past papers) or with a tuition provider... I don't know yet. Maybe that would be more valuable to sit for Sage certifications ?
- ICB Level 3 Payroll, certainly with Training Link. I like the fact they include Sage certification in tuition fees. I might study this level at the same time than Level 3 manu... Do you think it is too ambitious?
- ICB Level 3 in Self Assessment or another certification, I don't know yet. My objective is to have knowledges about UK Tax system... Do you know other certifications which provides a UK tax syllabus (from scratch)?
- ICB New Level 4, in order to be able to say : "I have completed the whole ICB path" (I am French and so I am a little... "Proud" :D) ICB has just published the syllabus of this (new?) level on their site. What do you think about it?

...and find an employer who would hire me for ACCA certification and pay the sooooo expensive fees for exemptions (£60 per paper!!!)

I would be grateful if you tell me what you think about my study plan and the providers I have selected :)

Cheers from France

Jérôme

attilabenko · Guru

Hi Jerome,

This will cost you an awful lot of money what you could spend on ACCA exemption fees...
From the other hand it is a very good way of learning about PRACTICAL bookkeeping in the UK. If you go for any accounting qualifications they would be much more about theory, same as in France I suppose. If you learn bookkeeping it is about technical stuff and hardly any of those theories well probably apart from the new level 4 ICB.
Providers, yes Kaplan is a well known and recognised provider with very good reputation.

jerohm · Veteran Member

Thanks for your reply :)

Yep, I could spend my money on ACCA exemption fees... But I would have just papers and not the UK specific knowledges I would like to learn...

Of course I agree with you when you say "it is a very good way of learning about PRACTICAL bookkeeping in the UK". And I hope I would be able to :)

attilabenko · Guru

Just be aware, employers don't really recognise ICB qualifications, ICB is a bit more intended to self-employed bookkeepers...
If you are looking for employment you should seriously consider doing AAT what would give you the technical and uk specific knowledge and well recognised by employers even if you just started or part qualified.

-- Edited by attilabenko on Friday 8th of October 2010 03:06:49 PM

ICBUK · Guru

Attila is right, although in a recent recruitment agency market review only 12% of employers are looking for qualifications anyway :)

However, the ICB is concentrating on pushing the name out there, I would be supprised if a firm of accountants have not heard of the ICB. Banks are now becoming aware of the ICB and its objectives.

We are also getting membership applications from people told to join the ICB before they will be employed/sub contracted to.

attilabenko · Guru

That is good but still long way to go to get the proper recognition :(
Maybe in bank's headquarters or London offices they know about ICB but come down rural Gloucestershire they don't even know they have a head office...that is just my opinion;)

I don't think you guys at ICB realised how hard it is going to be to get recognised when you started (and it was some time ago now). Maybe when it is about big talks ICB is there but when it comes down to little people it still needs a fair bit of effort from ICB and from us,too.

Hope it makes sense...

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Attila,

Good points, yes it is very much an effort from the members too.

Banks are hard to deal with, they have so many industries to remember. My local branch knew of the ICB (Barclays). Lloyds TSB even sponsored our last big event.

If you Google Bookkeepers, who comes up first? ICB. That helps.(http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1276&bih=654&q=bookkeepers&aq=f&aqi=g4g-s1g5&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=81aa0f6582b4550)

We appear in most Federation of Small Business newsletters now.

Large firms of accountants have now started using ICB members.

It is a slow process, something we have only just started doing, but we are getting there.

The plan was to use the money from the directory to publish the directory (and ICB) to local branches of banks, accountants etc.

Unfortunatly there are a lot of 'little people' and getting hold of them is hard. Maybe ICB should charge members £15 each and put an advert in the Sun for a week biggrin

-- Edited by ICBUK on Friday 8th of October 2010 05:13:18 PM

attilabenko · Guru

Make sure it is on page 3, maybe the girl should hold a little ICB ad...

Julies bookkeeping · Veteran Member

My 2p worth, though not sure if is worth that.

None of the local accountants that I have dealt with have heard of ICB, I am also a member of IPP again they have not heard about them either.

Not had a lot of dealings with banks but the few I have also have not heard of ICB or IPP.

I have tried in my own little way of getting the name out there in my area, I am a member of the local HMRC working together group, though I do not feel I always get the support from ICB that I know the other bodies give to there members. Points raised at these meeting get put on newsletters etc, any points other members want raised at these meetings etc.

This has to be a main cripe of mine with ICB this and the extra exams of course.

jerohm · Veteran Member

Dear James, thanks for your interesting posts, that help me to understand better the role of ICB.

Dear Attila, thanks for your reply, however a bit... disturbing ^^

Actually, I have heard from ICB in France. That's the reason why I have chosen this path, rather than AAT (so much expensive, less... "flexible" and less interesting for me -no offense-).

I have heard too that ICB and IAB are going to work together? Is it true? Would a merger be possible ?

That would be a good thing in my opinion : that's really amazing how much professional bodies you have in the UK! In France, there is only one body (l'Ordre des Experts Comptables), and we have to study 8 years at university before registering as a chartered accountant... and being able to provide bookkeeping services, which are a legal monopoly (not sure that's the correct word in English.......) owned by the registered chartered accountants.

-- Edited by jerohm on Saturday 9th of October 2010 10:58:25 AM

attilabenko · Guru

Yes it is similar here if you want to be a chartered accountant, maybe not 8 yrs but a lot of study that's for sure. And yes bookkeeping as a separate thing from accountancy seem to be fairly new idea in England,too. Probably that's why the lack of recognition.

Where I am from originally (Hungary) bookkeeper and accountant are traditionally separate. Most businesses will have a bookkeeper and if the turnover is above the certain limit they will get an accountant to audit the books done by a bookkeeper. And yes similar to france minimum of university degree in accounting, training with companies plus postgraduate training so yes about 8 yrs to be accountant...

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi,

I've just read this thread with interest and working at quite a senior level as a consultant in retail and corporate banking I can quite definitely say that nobody that I've worked with in three of the four main high street banks has heard of the ICB.

I think that you need to clarify which area of banking that you are talking about. People hear banking and think about back office functions. Are we actually talking about call centre operations here rather than banking which would require ICAEW. ACCA or CIMA level qualifications or a first from a good university and signing up to passing each of the ACCA or ICAEW papers at first sitting.

If we are talking about call centre work then whether or not one has an ICB qualification is not material. You need to pass a series of interviews to show competence and common sense. Any qualification would be considered and if it's financial then all the better.

I am not saying that the banks would not be interested in people with ICB qualifications but in itself it's not going to open any more doors thansomeone with the OU certificate in accountancy or IAB qualification. What really matters is that you are not frightened by numbers and that you have a meticulous eye for detail.

As for the statement about 12% of employers are looking for qualifications, that's probably about right but what it doesn't emphasise is that such means that 88% of employers are only interested in candidates who can hit the ground running.

In banking people go from bank to bank and it's word of mouth by those on the inside that gets you the job. There is still a graduate intake but as mentioned above it's not for the feint hearted.

If you want to come to banking but are not qualified and experienced then one of the best routes is in fact via the call centre route as once you are in the family you can apply for internally advertised posts and work your way into the position that you really want whether that be in customer facing or back office roles.

Good luck for anyone who does go into banking as its a very interesting and varied career path that can ultimately give you a good income.

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Attila,

hope that your well and that nobody you know got caught up in the chemical spill.

Some excellent points in the thread, sorry that I've joined it so late.

Jerohm,

Back to the original thread, taking ICB will not get you any ACCA exemptions where the OU qualification or AAT will (I think that the IAB qualification also will providing that you have the level 4 qualification in international standards).

That's not saying that other organisations are better than the ICB but just something to be aware of when deciding what to study if ACCA is your ultimate goal.

Note also that the most restrictive rules of an organisation take precedence so for example, if ICB allow you to prepare a set of accounts the fact that the more draconian rules of the ACCA would only allow you as a student to prepare books to trial balance, do VAT and Payroll takes precedence over what the ICB membership would allow.

Just something else to be aware of before investing your money in qualifications.

Good luck with whatever path you take,

kind regards,

Shaun.

Wella · Expert

The Fat Cat's back

ICBUK · Guru

Hello, and welcome back Shamus,

One thing I would add is that we do have ACCA student members with the ICB, who are going on from ICB to accountant, and as far as I am aware, ACCA will allow you to carry out services within your ICB Practice License if you do not mention you are ACCA to your clients.

We have also been told ACCA do accept ICB Manual qualifications as exemptions from their entry papers, but not the actual qualification. This is where the Level IV may come in I am unsure, but quite a few members take this route so there must be something.

I think the ICB is loosely looking into expanding the link between ICB and ACCA/ICAEW etc over the next few years, but without becoming just a route to an accountant as the ICB firmly belives in bookkeeping as a career in itself.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi James,

not ignoring you but I'm only on here in passing at the moment so takes a while to catch up with the latest posts.

The ACCA comment that I made really relates to students of the ACCA. Things change pretty regularly so my understanding may be slghtly out of date but my understanding is that if you are fully qualified ICB but a student, even at thefinal stages with the ACCA then the more draconian rules of the ACCA take precedence.

If you have passed all of the ACCA exams then provided that you do not use your ACCA letters then such restrictions do not apply and you are allowed to do everything that you would be allowed to under the remit of the ICB.

The advantage here is that you are covered for MLR under the ICB banner where even as a fully qualified accountant you would not be covered for MLR until you have an ACCA practice licence which would take two plus years post qualification in a relevant supervised role.

I believe that freelance work as a bookkeeper does not count towards post qualification experience (again something other readers might want to check themselves) unless the work that you do is properly supervised and signed off by a qualified accountant.

All very complex and so easy to inadverantly do the wrong thing which is one of the good things about the advice freely given on this site.

On that matter did you read the thread on here about the sales methods of HLC and how they're telling newbies that other institutions ICB qualifications are not the same as theirs? I'm only going on what I read on here but, whilst appreciating that the ICB could not comment about such matters, this might be something that you want to look into?

The thread was http://www.book-keepers.org.uk/index.spark?aBID=106474&p=3&topicID=38427562 if you want to have a quick read.

Anyway, hope that you are well and hope to catch up again soon,

All the best,

Shaun.