I'm hoping you can help to point me towards the appropriate qualification path.
My husband is Director of the family business (est. 1925). It is a small business & his mother has been in charge of the Accounts for the last 40yrs, all entered manually but she is very good at bookkeeping so everything is exact. They pay a firm of Accountants around £4k a year to prepare the year end accounts & for advice. The same firm have been doing this for the last 30yrs & my husband is looking to reduce his Accountants bill as he does not feel he gets value for money.
The company strategy involves his mother retiring in April & I will take over sole responsibility for the bookkeeping. In preparation I have been entering the input/outputs and invoicing plus paying the VAT online, however my background is IT so I have no formal accountancy/bookkeeping experience. Initially I will continue the bookkeeping manually but our aim is to get Sage up and running.
I need to ensure that whatever training I undertake will give me the experience & confidence to takeover the bookkeeping from his mother, and allow me to interact with the Accountants.
In the long run I'd also like to offer bookkeeping services to other SME's including Ltd companies or sole traders so need a recognised qualification with this career structure in mind. I have researched AAT & ICB but I'm more confused than when I first started!
I will probably be learning at home, based in E.Yorkshire using CD Roms or elearning so would appreciate any recommendations for providers.
Any advice you could provide would be much appreciated.
Wow! To be paying £4k in accountants fees, it must be a fair sized business - and all the bookkeeping is manual. I would say there are considerable savings to be made.
Whereabouts in E. Yorkshire are you? I may be able to help with the accounts!
I will leave the qualification bit of your question for someone more suitably qualified, although I did AAT myself (many years ago) and two of my staff are currently doing it, it is a solid qualification and I don't think you will go wrong with it.
There are 4 staff, two part-time (myself & mother-in-law) and 2full time (Husband & Father-in-law). Everyone apart from myself are Directors. The business has many long standing customers & thankfully very few bad debt as most of your customers pay quickly & by bacs although we still get many cheques. Suppliers don't change much & our turnover has stayed pretty static over the last few years.
Things tick over pretty nicely, we are printers so our main expenditure in the year is paper!
As it's a family business & no-one really comes from an Accountancy background no-one has had the confidence to question what we actually get for our 4k!
My background is different having work in project management for large global companies my nature is to question everything! :)
We are always seeking to reduce our overheads so the more I can do & the more efficient & transparent our processes become the better. Hence I feel being qualified & able to question can only be good for the company.
So advice on training from other members would be much appreciated.
I did the ICB exams after being discriminated against twice by employers, the last time was it for me, I knew I could never work for an employer again. I started trading in January and now have 5 clients, I haven't yet advertised will wait until my youngest starts school.
The courses I did, with a training provider I used Training Link they were brilliant! Because I was studying around the children getting replies to my queries was important and I always got responses within hours and that included weekends! They also turned round one of mock exams within hours so I could book the exam. They gave me alot of support and tbh it was their encouragement that gave me the push to start up. I did 1 other exam with another training provider which was a waste of money, the training material was terrible and the support was non existent, I ended up studying for the exam myself using the sage study books and even now when I look at the material still don't understand it (I've worked in this field for years!).
Without knowing the full details of your family company it is difficult to know whether £4k is excessive or not.
Questions i would ask is
1. What additional work does your accountant do to the accounts info you provide to prepare the final accounts? 2. Does your accountant do the payroll? 3. Does your accountant do the VAT? 4. Does your accountant deal with all the adminstrative duties of the company eg lodging documents at companies house, maintaining statutory books etc? 5. Does your accountant prepare and submit the company tax return? 6. Does your accountant prepare all appropriate returns for individuals? eg personal tax returns and P11ds 7. Are the accounts audited or is it just accounts preparation? 8. Does the accountant give ongoing support and additional advice during the year? eg tax planning, projections, pensions advice, exit strategy options etc.
The more of the above your accountant does then the more likely that £4k is a reasonable fee as the fee should be based on the amount of time your accountant spends on your company's behalf in the year. Ensuring the work is carried out at the appropriate level eg you wouldnt want a qualified accountant spending time preparing the accounts but this should be delegated to a suitably experienced junior and then reviewed as appropriate.
I work for a firm of chartered accountants in Central Scotland with over 50 employess, and although far away from you, given technology these days we could easily assist you in all your requirements.
If you would like a no obligation quote then please email me and i will arrange to contact you with a few to going over your requirements in more detail.
If you wish to have an accountant closer to hand then i would suggest contacting 2 or 3 suitably qualified accountants in your area to find out if you can get a better deal than what you are getting. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
Just something else to consider. If you want to offer bookkeeping sevices, then under the money laundering regulations you will need to be registered with either HMRC or a Professional body such as the ICB. If you copy and paste the following you'll be able to get some more info.
I'm sure we would be able to provide an accounting service to you, but would definitely be able to meet up. We have clients in Hull, and go over at least once a month.
If you're interested, please email me directly. Our website link below has more info, as well as piccies of us all!
I'm hoping you can help to point me towards the appropriate qualification path.
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Any advice you could provide would be much appreciated.
Mrs MacP
From reading the above you want to do as much as possible for the family business and then eventually set up as a self-employed bookkeeper. The same firm of accountants have been doing your accounts for the past 30 years. If the advice they have been giving has been good then I would stick with them while you learn the bookkeeping side of things. After 30 years what harm will another year do. Rather than have the hassle of moving accountants while you could be doing with help while learning yourself.
After a year of learning the work the accountants do will become less and less and hopefully your bill from them as well.
For self-employment then qualifications with the ICB or IAB might be better. I don't know about the IAB but I know with the ICB distance learning is an easy option and exams can be taken at the same places as the driving theory exams so there will be one nearby. I think there are only two exams with the ICB that are taken at a centre the others can be taken at home online (timed).
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Thanks for the responses and advice, lots to take in!
As my MIL & FIL are both near to retiring, my husband thinks we should stay with our current Accountant until April next year as he knows all about their pensions. I know my husband is keen to review our current situation so I'm sure there is scope to start discussions in the latter part of this year and I will definitely keep your details on record for the appropriate time.
With regards to my training, I have decided to start with the AAT Level 2 Award in Bookkeeping with a view to possibly continuing down the AAT Level 3 route and also studying Computerised Accounts with a view to introducing Sage. I have ordered the Bookkeeping course from BPP this morning and just can't wait to get started now! It was a minefield trying to choose between the ICB, IAB or AAT route so I'm just hoping I have made the right decision.
I will also have a look at the HMRC site with regards to registering, although I'm a fair bit off that yet as feel experience is just as important, if not more so than gaining a qualification.
You don't need to register with HMRC if you are only doing the book-keeping for the family business as an employee. You only need to register if you are operating as a self-employed book-keeper.
Like Semsley says if your employed you don't need to register. However, even if you are not you may be exempt if you have another job not in accountancy.
If you are registering with the AAT you can speak to them for advice on MLR closer to the end of your course. Or call the ICB's MLR helpline on 0845 060 2345 for free advice.
