We have someone working for us who deals with wages, and therefore I'm not 'in the loop' with dealing with HMRC as much these days. However, we seem to be getting more and more problems in this area. The latest one which we've struggled with a bit over the last couple of months is actually getting HMRC to recognise us as agents. We do the 64-8 bit for SA and FBI2 for payroll, but HMRC are increasingly saying that we are not down as agents, which is obviously frustrating. We can go onto their website and our clients are all there under the PAYE section, but that doesn't seem to matter.
I know the 64-8 was redesigned a couple of years ago to include PAYE, but clients may not be registered for PAYE when we do the first 64-8. Do we have to do a new one if they then register? And another if they then become VAT registered?
We're also getting PAYE correspondence back from Employers Section, Longbenton. Has all PAYE been centralised there and they use a different system?
No Harm in doing another 64-8 for PAYE and VAT at a later date. It will probably still confuse them.
Not sure about the Longbenton as haven't had to deal with them. Why they couldnt just stick with the local offices like they used as it was so much easier.
Hi Nick, yes all the ER PAYE offices have moved/been merged. If you put the office code into the 'contact us' bit of HMRCs site it'll show you the new correspondence address.
As for getting clients added to your client list. I don't use 64-8's any more apart from in exception circumstances. For PAYE/CT/SA I get the reference number off the client and use the online authorisation process. It is easier in the long run, although it does involve harrassing your client for 3 weeks to get the auth code off them. More reliable than the 64-8/FBI method though. If you have an existing client who then registers for PAYE then yes you do need to do a new authorisation for that bit.
If you are going to use paper forms then make sure you're putting your PAYE agent code on them so that they know who you are.
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Jenny
Responses are my opinion based on the information provided. All information should be thoroughly checked before being relied on.
These are for clients who we have acted for for several years! When we go online, they are there for CT/SA, PAYE, all the ones I would expect. It is very disheartening!
Yes, I've always been frustrated at P.35 time that I can't just access PAYE payments in the same way as other taxes.
Unlike others, I have had trouble speaking to HMRC with only the online authorisation in place. They told me that online authorisation is just that; and that it didn't facilitate correspondence or telephoning HMRC as an agent. Has that changed now?
In addition, I believe the FBI2 form was purely for online authorisation too, so (after getting all existing clients to sign and return it), I stopped using it. At the moment, I generally do a 64-8 along with a password request for anything exceptionally urgent.
I've got a long standing client who is ill at the moment for whom I'm already registered for SA. Anyone know how long it is taking at the moment to process a 64-8 for PAYE and VAT ?
That's crazy !! HMRC's website clearly states the "easiest way" to gain authorisation is to use online services not 64-8. It's the paragraph directly after telling you they won't discuss client circumstances without it.
In my experience it's pot luck and depends on the client whether online or 64-8 is the easiest method. I only use a 64-8 if forced to.
Tim, also couldn't agree more with your P35 experiences...if only we could.
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Tony
Responses are intended as outline only. Formal advice should be sort from your Institutes Technical Department or a suitably qualified Accountant.
If you register as an agent online, then you are an agent, and they should speak to you (after asking a few security questions)
The only ways you can submit client SA, PAYE, VAT etc, online without registering as an agent, is if you use third party software, or use clients own login details. Both require the client to be signed up for online service(s).
If you use either of these methods HMRC will not talk to you directly as an agent, as these are online filing only, and not the same as being registered as a clients agent. You need to go through the process of applying online, the client receiving (and giving you) the authorisation code, and then activate it on line. You can still do some things before the code is received but you cannot submit it, until the code is activated. Even then it takes a couple of days to filter down (why I don't know, as you would have thougt it would be instant)
I have spoken on more than one occasion to HMRC in an agent capacity, and never been queried. I have only ever applied for agent status online, and never used 64-8
Do they mean that if your client isn't registered online, then they wont speak to you? Seems all very strange
Hi Tony, Bill. Thanks for your feedback on this. I did do a bit of 'revision' on this to reassure myself I wasn't leading anyone up the garden path. My experience is encapsulated in this paragraph about halfway down :-
Form FBI 2 can only be used to authorise the accepting of information over the internet. If you want to handle other PAYE/CIS for employers matters for your clients, your client must also complete from 64-8.
'Other PAYE/CIS......matters' has meant to me a refusal to deal with me on just about any correspondence or telephone call even when the client is on my online list. Anyway, with what you've said, I can imagine that the above advice is not current practice and that with the advent of both security questions and dedicated lines, HMRC can now be confident that we are, who we say we are, even if only FBI2 authorised.
The thrust of that link seems to be that a password is as good as a 64-8, but an FBI2 is purely for online services. (tell me I'm not being fick).
I'm only anxious at how long this will take because this lady is sick with worry and her husband (who did the VAT and PAYE) is also very ill.
thanks peeps,
Tim
PS its probably just Mancunians they don't trust :o)
This is an extract from a paragraph from HMRC website, regarding client authorisation
"If you set up client authorisations online, you will be entitled to act on your client's behalf online, by phone and in writing for the appropriate HMRC business area(s) once HMRC's systems have been updated."
You do have to be registered for the individual service for your client you are contacting HMRC about. If you are only registered to complete SATR and not PAYE/ VAT etc for example. HMRC will only discuss SATR matters for your client.
I am wondering, if authorising clients online gives a broader scope than paper applications (64-8 FBI 2)? Seems strange that it should. I have only ever used the online system to authorise clients. It seems a lot easier and quicker. Normally all up and running in 7 days, with access to any previous online history for the given service.
I've not seen any evidence that a Password is better than a 64-8, but since my first post on this thread, I'm wondering if a Password might be as good as a 64-8 except that you're then relying on the client to relay up to 5 passwords.
I'd come to the conclusion that the FBI2 form is fairly redundant since the consolidated 64-8 came in. I'm 99% certain that a 64-8 puts client's on one's online list reliably enough and I think the guidance would be quite clear without the FBI2 at all.
I'm just doing a pensioner who was removed from SA after I filed 2010. The recent ESCa19 problems are, paradoxically because HMRC are getting on top of the game with calculations, so with a bit of luck, I'll receive a copy of his P800.
