Hi - I could really do with pointing in the right direction with this one.
I have recently taken over as treasurer at the local football club. When I asked about submitting accounts, I was greeted with a blank stare. Having searched HMRC, I am none the wiser (other than the CACS scheme, which they are not a part of). The club has been going for about 10 years, and I have a feeling I maybe on the brink of opening a can of worms.
Last years books were audited by an accountant (although they were returned to me in a carrier bag, no additional paper work/work sheets/ledgers just a pile of reciepts) the outgoing treasurer seems a little reluctant to let me speak to the accountant.
There is a surplus of a couple of thousand each year (they are saving for a tractor), aside from this, what comes in (about 15K) gets spent on equipment fees etc.
It just seems to me that a set of accounts should be submitted to someone, be it HMRC or even the FA, otherwise surely we are looking at an ideal opportunity for money laundering?
So, can anyone point me in the right direction, please?
Hi Miss. I know that a social club I was briefly involved with had to submit a Corporation Tax Return because they received investment income from savings and substantial rental income. They'd been going years and at one time built up tens of thousands in savings. I don't think they had to submit accounts to anyone else other than handing out copies at the AGM, but i'll stand corrected on that one.
It sounds a bit dodgy that the ex-treasurer doesn't want you to speak to the accountant. This would be up to the membership, and I see no reason why they should object. It is not unheard of for a cabal to be lining their pockets - in fact a blind eye may be turned, so a pretence can be maintained that club officers are unpaid.
If there are any commercial activities conducted then they may (want to) be registered for VAT.
best wishes
-- Edited by Don Tax on Saturday 16th of July 2011 10:50:31 AM
There is nothing dodgy about the Treasurer not wanting you to speak to the accountant. The accountant will likely have nothing to do with the club and is more likely just an acquaintance of one of the committee members. The accounts wouldn't have been audited in the normal sense of the word. The treasurer of a football club (at this level) does not necessarily come from a financial background and the audit is more of an independent check on the figures.
As for the lining of pockets - committee folk tend to be worse off financially as a result of being on the committee of a non league football club. Trust me - I've been there. The club I was on the committee of had an income of around £60,000 and most of that went back out on players wages and transfer fees.
You are right about it being an ideal opportunity for money laundering. I know a couple of years ago one local club spending a lot of money on players. There were rumours initially that this money was coming from gangland activity as it was out of all proportion to all the other clubs in the league. When their major sponsor went bust it became apparent just how much they had been pumping in to the club.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
Point taken, Peasie. I was speaking of clubs in general and perhaps my comments were misplaced. I must be getting too suspicious in my old age. Miss, maybe this website will be more informative:-
The outgoing treasurer has now told me that they do submit audited accounts to the local FA "sometimes", so I am going to try and get my hands on a copy of the last return, just so i know what was included in last years accounts.
I also wanted to make it clear, I dont think that there is any willful wrong doing at the club, at worst I think certain parties are just a bit awkward, I think once I have earnt their trust it will be fine.
Good. I hope not Miss. My experience of non-league clubs is nil, but league clubs were notorious at one time for under-declaring attendances for the slush fund. best wishes.
but league clubs were notorious at one time for under-declaring attendances for the slush fund.
In the days before all seated stadium a certain football club in Glasgow, I won't name them (they play in green and white hoops) were often accused of under-declaring their attendances so they would have less VAT to pay. It's hard to judge attendances when they are scattered about a terracing compared to strict seating. It would be blatantly obvious there was something wrong when you'd see the attendance in the Sunday papers knowing the ground was almost full.
Nowadays the opposite is the case - because they include season ticket holders in the attendance (whether they are at the match or not) a crowd of under 20,000 will still be reported as 50,000 in the papers.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
I'm the treasurer for a kids football club and I have a sheet to fill in from the FA each year and I get the Chairman to sign them off as well as myself. This sheet then has to be posted to the FA for them I suppose to file etc. We have done this since the club started and I would think that they footy club your involved in would have to do the same. We are a very small club with hardly anything left in the bank each year but we still submit the form every year.
