for all the potential ACCA's out there. Just read on the cover of this months PQ that ACCA exams are to go online starting with F1 in 2012 with the aim of all exams being online by 2015.
This sounds as though the exams will be available more than twice a year as under the current model but will taking exams online "dumb them down?".
AAT have already had problems with exams taking 4.5 hours because of servers being overloaded and exams crashing part way through.
If anyone out there has taken any of these new form of exams how do they work? Does one still get a written question paper or is everything done online? If so I don't see how that will work as ACCA questions can be 2-4 pages long and you need to be able to see that whilst you're writing the answer not keep swapping between the two.
The ACCA and Summit state that going online is more in line with the modern world but ACCA is all about knowledge and advice to clients, not the technical manner of input which would be more suitable for AAT exams.
I really am all for more sittings per year but not at the cost of the status of the qualification if the questions have to be dumbed down to fit the medium.
Interested to know everyone elses views or additional knoweldge as to what the ACCA is up to and perhaps more importantly where do these exams get sat? Will it be a case that the current freedom of not having a training provider is lost due to this?
Looking forward to learning more about this.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
The ACCA and Summit state that going online is more in line with the modern world but ACCA is all about knowledge and advice to clients, not the technical manner of input which would be more suitable for AAT exams.
I must admit I'm glad the ICB manual exams are in this format. I'm hopeless at any question that requires a narrative answer. In the old paper mock exams I've been doing I haven't even bothered doing these questions as I know they won't be there in the real exam. I've still studied the answer.
So I really can't see how it would work as regards the bit in bold.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
i've just taken an AAT CBT and found it very clever. You really cant go off past papers as i have done in the past for written papers, you do need to know the majority of the subject as the questions can be plucked from any area. I understand what Shaun is saying and can't figure out how an ACCA paper would be based in a CBT. All of the AAT i sat was done online, only paper allowed was for workings. My computer reset to desktop before i even started the exam and i had to have the program reloaded and then after willing my entire soul and body to press the finish button, computer froze-3 times before it processed my result. I was on the verge of tears and it was only the gallons of coffee i had that morning keeping me going. In fact i had resigned myself to the fact that i would have to sit the exam again. Not a good start overall. How to make a grown man cry.
Shamus wrote:AAT have already had problems with exams taking 4.5 hours because of servers being overloaded and exams crashing part way through.
I think that could be a IT guys excuse (me being an IT guy I know about it ). They would have known how many exams they were expecting, and put in a comfort bracket as well (or should have done).
The ICB is working to put its more written papers online (self assessment, payroll). This will not be as instant as the current CBT exams (results ready as you leave the centre), as the written answers will have to be manually marked. But you will get the benefits of the CBT booking, availablilty etc.
I assume this is what the ACCA are thinking. You do most of the examination entering figures, but write in the essay part. The computer marks the figures, and an examiner marks the essay.
Should speed things up as when you have finished the examination it will appear in the examinars screen for marking, rather than the centre having to post the papers back, the body then doing all the admin etc etc.
The ICB has not fully tested this though, as like Shaun says, it can be annoying to keep scrolling up and down during an examination.
Shamus wrote:AAT have already had problems with exams taking 4.5 hours because of servers being overloaded and exams crashing part way through.
I think that could be a IT guys excuse (me being an IT guy I know about it ). They would have known how many exams they were expecting, and put in a comfort bracket as well (or should have done).
The ICB is working to put its more written papers online (self assessment, payroll). This will not be as instant as the current CBT exams (results ready as you leave the centre), as the written answers will have to be manually marked. But you will get the benefits of the CBT booking, availablilty etc.
I don't see how this is a benefit to ICB members - currently these exams are done at home. You can look up HMRC guides (which you would do in a real world situation anyway so it isn't exactly cheating).
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
The online examination system allows the timer to be set to a maximum of 7 days to do the actual examination, so if the ICB wanted they could allow you to start the paper, go and lookup answers, and come back to the exam and continue it.
However, not sure if they will give you that long, probably be longer than the 2 hours you have for the Level 1, 2 and 3 though.
I'm relieved to say that both the IAB & the IFA expect their exams to be taken under normal exam conditions, and looking up the answers is not an option!
In the real world you would not look up answers unless it was something really specialised or difficult . The reason we get paid is for our knowledge - if you have to look everything up, why are you getting paid?
whilst I agree with you on that to a large extent (and am fully behind the IAB and IFA stance on exams) on the question of the real world outside exams I think one of the main things that you pick up along the way is knowing where to look.
Why learn reporting standards off by heart when they change so regulary. Surely the real key is knowing which standard is which so that you know where to look.
I can wheel every audit, etchical and accounting standard (UK & IFRS) off the top of my head but beyond basics such as materialarity and capitalisation criteria I couldn't quote from the standards at any other time apart from when taking exams and even then you remember only certain quotes. There is just too much information for one little human brain to possibly hold.
I could be wrong (hope not or I may be in the wrong profession) but I would have thought that the way I am with information is the same for most people in our profession.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Yes, I agree that knowing where to look is important - but no-one should have to look up the basics - what happens if you don't have the facility to look the basics up? Also if someone is allowed to look up an answer, how do you know they are not just "copying" the answer. You may not remember a lot of the things you learn't when you took the exams, but at least you can say you understood it. Looking up an answer does not prove understanding. It just proves you know how to copy.
If I was somewhere there was no electricity or computers, I could still maintain a full set up manual books, with control accounts without looking up how to do it. I can complete a fairly simple tax or corporation tax return with computations without the need to look anything up the help sheets. The reason I do CPD is to keep myself up to date with the changes of the things I need to be aware of. I always thought the reason anyone took an exam was to prove understanding and knowledge.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Thursday 28th of July 2011 06:25:37 PM
I agree with Frauke, the very basics should be at the tip of your tongue should i client ever put you on the spot, you need to look knowledgeable. There is, however, a limit to the breadth of knowledge a person can have.
On a related note, i (hopefully) took my last ACA exam on wednesday, and at advanced stage you can take anything into the exam, including IFRS standards, tax books and audit manuals, which is meant to be more real world. You need to know where something is and how to use it. Which i intially thought sounded easy, but do to the time pressure you need to know all of the basics and only have time to look up the most obscure points.
Without knowledge at our finger tips we really are not much better than someone with access to google.
Just my thoughts
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
My chat with frauke was more about what constituted a real world situation as whilst I am in total agreement that one needs to know the basics I do feel that there is also a large element of knowing where to look.
One thing that I've found in business is that you can be knowledgable and respected for what you do but still be able to say that you need to check the detail on something before getting back with a definitive answer.
If you know 80% of the stuff and know where to find the other 20% then clients respect you more if you tell them you will look something up rather than bluffing your way around an answer.
When I go into meetings I expect to come out with a client sure that I know what I'm doing but also a list of action points to be followed up and I know exactly where to look for that other 20%.
I don't think that we're actually argueing with each other on this one it was just that I can see Peasie's point in what constitutes the real world. However, exams are not really the real world... Certainly doing a full set of consolidated accounts with issues plus two analysises of issues with companies normally including a directors report all of which you knew absolutely nothing about prior to the exam and you do all that in three hours is really not reality.
However, the time pressure on the exams is a whole other debate around the exams being a test of what you choose to skip and still gain a pass rather than reflecting the actual knowledge that you have. At the ICB level I think that exams are a lot fairer timewise than at the level we're working at where for our answers to be a true reflection of our knowledge either they need to be cut down or give us at least 4 (preferably 5) hours to do them as I want examiners to understand what I know, not rush out answers just to try and complete them within the timeframe.
On paper P5 (Advanced Performance Management) I could answer absolultely everything. I wrote solidly at full pace for the entire exam and still I couldn't get enough information down on the paper before the time was up. How is that a test of knowledge.
It just seems as though the exams are now a lottery biased more towards those who know less so are able to happily give shorter answers that do not necessarily take into account all of the relevant issues associated with a scenario.
went completely off the original subject there but a few things in there that I'm happy to get off my chest.
Talk in a bit,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
YLB-HO wrote:I'm relieved to say that both the IAB & the IFA expect their exams to be taken under normal exam conditions, and looking up the answers is not an option!
I was refering to the taxation examinations, where it is not always possible to have all the knowledge in your head in terms of tax codes etc. As Shaun says, sometimes part of the examination is testing your 'knowing where to look'.
The ICB main examinations that test the underpinning knowledge (which should be known off the top of your head) are still centre based.
). They would have known how many exams they were expecting, and put in a comfort bracket as well (or should have done).
