I have a client who has a few employees under the apprenticeship scheme.
This is the first and only employer who i deal with who offer the scheme. When they took on the scheme they printed some info off relating to the NMW and how it works.... However it has materialised today that a member of staff reached 19 in January '10 and completed a full year of the course in October '10. The employee bringing this to light!
Anyway having calculated a back pay that is due to the employee, the client was not at all happy that he has to come up with a large amount of money and is totally blaming me for not keeping an eye on the age and when they complete the first year.
Can i ask is it really my responsibility to ensure i know all the staff's DOB and when they reach an age that effects their NMW and know when staff complete their first year as an apprentice?? Surely it would be down to the manager who gives me the payroll information monthly.
If so is there an easy system that shouts to tell me when its their birthday and how old they are?!...
I know that this client will use me and disripute my company as a get out for this and protect themselves. And of course i do not want a bad word said!
What payroll system are you using. Most show the date of birth of employees on their records together with their age. However, the apprenticeship scheme generally is not covered as is the usual ages which payroll prompts you for, because it is specific on age and longevity of the employment. Usually the training provider sends a letter to the person responsible for the apprenticeship which details the minimum legal pay. Unless you are responsible for the HR function of the company than I would say that it is not your responsibility to alert the company as to when people's wages need to be increased.
As a thought what did you state in your terms of engagement letter to the client. If you said something like, prepare payroll on instructions given by xx, you should be covered.
-- Edited by semsley on Tuesday 16th of August 2011 09:56:44 PM
I would agree, most of us offering payroll services offer just that, the processing of the details passed to us by the employer. It is the employer who must remain responsible for the lawful treatment of their staff. I think this one, in particular, is trying to offload that responsibility now that something has gone wrong. I'm afraid its now just part of our blame society brought on by the advent of the no win no fee parasites.
I also agree that you need to fall back on your letter of engagement for the limitations of the payroll service offered.
Thank you both for replying and clarifying that the responsibility and liabilities remain with the employer... It is so frustrating when something like this happens and is out of your control and i couldnt help but take the blame personally... Maybe I am too sensitive lol
Anyway my letter of engagement states:
In order for us to prepare your payroll and year end returns we will require the following information from you :-
(a) Personal details of all employees (i.e., name, NI number, home address, etc.). (b) All P45s received by you. (c) If any casual labour is taken on, you are required to operate P46 procedures. Completed P46 forms should be passed to us for processing. (d) Notification within two weeks of any employee who is ill for four or more calendar days, including weekends, bank holidays etc. This will enable us to operate statutory sick pay for you. (e) Notification of any employee who becomes pregnant. This will enable us to operate statutory maternity pay. (f) Details of any money or benefits made available to employees by you or by a third party through you. (g) Hours worked, rates of pay, bonuses etc. (h) Notification of employees engaged by you or leaving your employment. (i) Any notice of coding received by you.
I think from your letter of engagement you are legally fine. But from your post, I think you are more worried about this client telling all their friends that you lost them money, and that could be a problem for you.
Dealing with this sort of bad publicity could be more of a problem, and one I don't really know how to start trying to combat.
I agree with what others say, it should be the employers responsibility to be aware that he is no longer classed as an apprentice and should be receiving nmw.
On a seperate note, the minimum wage rises in October and one of my clients has two employees on £6.00 an hour. I do intend to inform client, as they are a one man band and may not be aware, but this has got me thinking, would I or the client be responsible for penalties and back pay if I didn't.
I usually send out a newsletter to my clients or contacts with various information relating to changes in legislation, including NMW and the new compulsory Pension Scheme being introduced etc etc.
In theory they are being advised well in advance, so if they do not read it could they say I never informed them!....
....... Usually the training provider sends a letter to the person responsible for the apprenticeship which details the minimum legal pay.
That seems to nail it Semsley.
I have a client with an employee on apprentice rate - started in October 06 and birthday July 89. Similar situation. I send NMW / Statutory Pay guidance at least once a year, it's the only apprentice, I just happened to notice so brought it to their attention. I got fobbed off with a 'its a special scheme in this particular trade'.
I've no idea whether such a scheme exists and Heather is covered in item (g), but I have though begun to list him separately from the other employees on the weekly summary.
I automatically raise those on NMW each October but this is a change of category. Throw it back at them with a smile "How have you managed to miss this for 18 months?". They've not lost anything and how were you to know he shouldn't go on say £10 p/h? It'd be interesting to know when the employee first approached them about this; he does have some responsibility too.
As for the new pension scheme, I'm still not certain when it will kick in for small employers.
Is this employee still on apprenticeship hourly rate?
The employee bought it to the managers attention within the last week... In fact thats not true, she mentioned it to another employee who bought it to the managers attention.
It appears the training provider did not send a letter to advise the company that the NMW applies after completing the first year after their 19th birthday. Also the 'Deed of Apprenticeship' has no information relating to changes in pay so this is being queried with the federation directly.
I have already started to warn my clients of this forthcoming pension scheme, it's a waiting game for SME's.
Is that Deed the documentation sent to the employee? If it didn't indicate a date when NMW would apply, then you're right to query it. Also, the employer ought to have budgeted for the wage cost rising sharply after the apprenticeship finished. What were they expecting to happen? To answer your question. Yep! (sighs).
I know my particular client set up that previous effort at compulsory pension schemes. Have you any thoughts on what is the most economical way to go about this new burden. Unfortunately, I can see that I'll be drafting a few opt-out letters, all above-board, as we did when the 48hr maximum hours came in.
Oh Moneysoft can be set to alert the birthday, so that might be handy.
I believe the deed is a templated document that is completed by the employer with the employees name, date of birth, date the apprentice starts and for how long etc etc. I will come back to this when I know what the federation has to say about the deed having no NMW information. Exactly the rise in wage cost would have happened at some point!
To be honest everyone I have spoken to about the proposed pension scheme seems to be looking at the opt-out option, therefore I too will be drafting a few letters.
Really?! I use Payroll Manager 100 as well as Sage... Where do I change the settings to alert me?
Yes, why am I not surprised training providers are reticent at the drawbacks of taking on staff. The employer might have been over-reliant on that source of information.
If you bring up the payslip, birthday greetings are at the bottom of the options button. I know this isn't specifically what you were after, but it is something. My Employers summary is set to 'Department Details', so in effect, the employer is now being reminded every week that they're paying an apprentice rate.
Slightly off-topic but I spoke to Moneysoft yesterday and he said that a new version of their accounts software would be out in a few months time so I'm dead exited now :o)
