Bob I had a look at your website (as per your post on "Time to Re-brand") and the swot analysis for bookkeepers.
Firstly I think your website if very informative and I like the way it is laid out.
I agree with some of your anyalsis regarding strenghs and weaknesses but not all bookkeepers are unable to provide the services you mention ie tax planning and business advice.
In addition to this a lot of bookkeepers are qualified to provide final accounts and do self assessments. Both ICB and IAB offer a level 4 qualification in tax, management accounting and financial accounting. The AAT qualification is a great but IAB and ICB are catching up with it.
It just seems to me that a bookkeeper who is already offering a "one stop shop" to say sole traders upon joining Crunchers would be expected to send the trial balance to the accountant for final accounts and self assessment/tax.
If anyone else has had a look a Bob's Crunchers franchise website what did you think of the limited role a bookkeeper would play until they were AAT qualified?
In saying that Bob I do agree with some of what you are saying ie more competition, accountants doing bookkeeping etc but I think this is the reason that bookkeepers are getting more qualifications and offering more services. The bookkeeper can now be the alternative accountant for the very small business.
Sorry I am sounding so negative but if you are looking for bookkeepers to join it might be a problem if their services are reduced until they are AAT qualified when in actual fact they may hold ICB and IAB qualifications at level 3 and 4.
I tend to agree with you here... I think it would be more profitable to work with clients to the extent of your ability and to forge a relationship with a local accountant who can offer the services you can't. I also don't agree with the point about limited marketing... If you are spending thousands on a franchise why wouldn't you put that money to getting your own business off the ground?
What I want to know is what do Crunchers (and all other bookkeeping type franchises) do to find you local clients that you can't do yourself? If you have your own MLR and PII as well as the right qualifications then what security can they offer that you yourself can't?
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Please correct me if I'm wrong... I am only human sucking up knowledge... Sometimes bits leak out!
I do not perceived your comments as negative and I accept my SWOT analysis generalises so will not be 100% for every bookkeeper.
The tax planning I have in mind includes the work that typically accountants do. An example could the advice around the valuation of goodwill on Incorporation.
As for business advice, this is will cover strategy, methodology, mindsets and tactical. My experience is that a typical bookkeeper would not feel comfortable helping a client put together a positioning strategy or be able assess a Website's Search Engine Optimisation value, 99.9% of accountants cannot do any of this.
The knowledge for franchisees to deliver tax and business advice comes from the Crunchers Knowledge Base.
Franchisees who are bookkeepers are expected to make their own mind up on final accounts work. This could be sending the TB for us to complete accounts/tax, sending final accounts/tax for us to review or doing it themselves. I would hope that all franchisees would do all the sole-trader work without review.
I will look at the wording on the Website to make sure that this is clear.
I disagree, if value based fixed fees are used I believe there is more profit to be made by doing the accounts/tax work that letting accountants take the value for this.
I cannot speak for the other franchises but the Crunchers marketing support covers a wide range of issues designed to empower the franchisee. There is no magic wand as such but with our programme franchisees will generate more leads at a lower cost per lead and convert more people into clients at a higher price.
For a bookkeeper, the fundamental idea is that they can offer their market an all-in service in terms of bookkeeping, accounts and tax plus the added value of a business advice. Essentially the franchisees product is enhanced by joining Crunchers and supported by a brand strategy.
The brand strategy includes being part of a national network who collaborate and share knowledge. This knowledge is how franchisees add value to clients and how we add value to franchisees.
So the bookkeeper can continue to provide all full accountancy service to sole traders with added value to ltd companies?
This makes more sense. I don't know about anyone else but I didn't get that from the website. It sounded to me like the bookkeeper was demoted to a date entry clerk and the AAT's got to do the more interesting stuff.
With regard to the AAT qualification, would you consider ICB and IAB level 4 qualification to be on an equal footing?
Can I ask some more questions?
What software is used?
Expected turnover? I know this is difficult to answer but do you have an average based on so many clients?
I am assuming that if you started on AAT the self employment would act as work experience and the accountants within Cruncher could verifiy for a membership and a practice license?
I personally cannot see anything wrong with Bobs approach.
For some franchising works, for others its the devils own creation.
It's not a path that I would go down as I'm just way too independant and self confident but I see no issue with those who do take this path.
The big issue that we have with franchisors in this business is that everyone and their aunty thinks that they can set up a brand on a shoestring and make their money from franchisee fee's rather than bookkeeping / accountancy.
These companies come and go but the Crunchers brand has been around for a while and the fact that Bob takes the time to offer help and advice on this site shows that he is commited to the profession rather than simply the cash it generates.
I think that THIS franchise opportunity is the be commended (you won't draw me on some of the other offerings out there!!!).
I stop short of saying recommended as my dealings with Bob are only through this site and I cannot comment on his business model or any other matter. That is down to others to investigate and draw their own conclusions.
Bob, on the SWOT thing I think that SWOT analysis tends to be a bit inwards looking and you might think about bolstering that with Porters five forces analysis to get potential franchisees to think outside the box about threats to their businesses from the environment within which they work. It's one thing to think about whether one could do something but quite another to look at the evidence ralated to whether they should.
Anyway, we've not done the franchise debate for ages and with a lot of newstarts I can see this thread ending up as a real welcome back to the debating chamber for you Bob!
Good luck with that and all the best,
Shaun.
P.S. OMG I just defended a Franchisor! Next thing you know I'll be saying nice things about cloud offerings.... Nar, that's just a step too far!
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Yes, if you worked with local accountants you could pass any work on that you couldn't do. You wouldn't get the fee but you would have to balance that up with not paying £250 p/m in franchise fees.
I have changed the wording on the FAQ for qualified bookkeepers, Crunchers is very much about empowering bookkeepers.
The ICB and IAB and very good qualifications and can be enough as far as formal qualifications go. If a franchisee was going to do any further formal qualifications I would probably suggest ATT because tax is so important to the Crunchers proposition.
Software - we do not insist the franchisee use any particular software.
Expected turnover - it's more about expected profit in terms of recovery rate and here the range is broad; £50 to £125 per hour.
Yes, franchisees can verify new franchisees for the practice license.
You are right, the £250 a month franchisee must be taken into account. The way I suggest this is done is to consider how many chargeable hours are worked a year. For someone working full time this could be 1,500 hours. So, the franchisee needs to get £2 an hour higher effective recovery rate with Crunchers to cover the management fee.
All franchisees should have no problem getting a very good return on their investment. I don't think the money is an issue, it's more about a meeting on minds. We are looking for bookkeepers who want to reposition to the trusted adviser and want to collaborate.
Franchising works for lots of people, but it wouldn't work for me. I also agree that there are many unscrupulous franchises out there, and if you were ever considering joining one do your homework.
I would say though, that if I were ever to join a bookkeeping franchise (not that I can ever see that) I would be looking closely at Crunchers.
Bob's website is something I keep an eye on a lot. I think he has his finger very much on the pulse and is moving Crunchers in a great direction, sometimes against the tide.
I would agree with Elizabeth too, to an extent. £250 a month on advertising and marketing could be great, or it could just be a waste of money if you don't have a proper strategy in place.
To my mind if you don't have a clear idea of where you are going, or where your business will sit in the marketplace, and crucially, that you want to grow your business, franchising might be the way to go. On the other hand, if you have a clear plan, and an individuality about you franchising might just be the biggest mistake you'll ever make. It's horses for courses.
actually, since writing the above I was sitting here thinking that for PQ ACCA's it might actually work as although one is not doing final accounts as such you are still able to offer that service to clients as you do it from the trial balance.
Also I suppose that you being an accountant actually counts as working under the supervision of a qualified accountant for the two years post qualification?
Just something else to put out there to the readers many of whome on this site are PQ's.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
crossed in the post... lol and so very true at the now feel dirty comment!
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I've read the bookkeeper bit again and it sounds much better now. Overall, I think it does look like one of the better franchise options. I think it will do well.
Yes, if you worked with local accountants you could pass any work on that you couldn't do. You wouldn't get the fee but you would have to balance that up with not paying £250 p/m in franchise fees.
Do you have your own practise at the moment?
Elizabeth
If I was to pass on work I would want a finders fee or a percentage of what they charge as commission.
I'm currently getting set up... Registering with everyone having MLR checks and sorting out insurance. How's in going with you? Are you set up yet?
Bob, you've given some fantastic answers and I can see the benefits of being linked to a well known franchise for the recognition and support, but honestly, franchising in general isn't for me. I'll be starting small and working my way up so couldn't afford the £250 a month and by the time I could I would be established anywhere. I do have quite a lot of clout so the marketing and getting rejected from a lot of the leads doesn't really bother me.
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Please correct me if I'm wrong... I am only human sucking up knowledge... Sometimes bits leak out!
Excellent site but a couple of minor points that I hope you take in the manner in which they are intended.
I've only scanned through a few pages not read the site in depth so you may want to have someone better geared up for this sort of thing than myself read through all of the various sections.
On the AAT screen it states technical knowledge from the ATT (in the orange box) rather than AAT. That may well be true considering your tax specialities but it doesn't read correctly on this page which is putting accross AAT membership.
On the News page the box about Xero is not gramatically correct.
Under Market Analysis, What is the Competition, you use the word "hone" rather than "home".
Considering everything that you've included I think that these are very minor points but worth clearing up.
Wierd that I can see these things on someone elses site but was completely blind to them on my own (Sheila reviewed mine and came up with seriously long list of hicups).
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
It is not so much about passing work on but having someone behind you who can do it for you so you can a) make money from it b) offer an all-in service c) learn so you can do it yourself.
I appreciate being part of a franchise is not for everyone. I suppose I am bias but for me it is a business decision, if you can make more money with less work by being part of something then why not join? I have always thought being on your own is over rated.
