VT Transaction + v's Sage 50... Which would you choose and why? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

123_Lesley · Veteran Member

VT Transaction + v's Sage 50... Which would you choose and why?

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

As I said before my battery died last night (sorry) I wouldn't encourage Sage with the prices they charge for what I feel is clunky software. There are some great alternatives of which VT is one. As long as you are happy with manual bookkeeping you'll easily get to grips with VT.

I'll await others answers.

Kris

123_Lesley · Veteran Member

Hello you!
I thought it must have been your battery... Although I also thought you'd got fed up of me!!!

Thank you for your post Kris... I have every faith in what you said on the phone...
I've just put it out for the test!
In the meantime I think I'm going to download their free 60 day trial...

ADAS · Guru

I think it's horses for courses really, there's a lot I really love about VT but I don't think it's a catch all solution. As far as I can find, the reporting / business management side of VT is pretty weak when compared to Sage. But then, I've probably said this before, for rapid data entry VT is much better.

Unfortunately I think you need more than one piece of software, I use three, and the clients needs will drive which one is the most appropriate.

Amanda · Expert

Hi,

What about Quickbooks, I am a big fan of this software. Its cheaper than sage, the reports are brilliant especially in the latest version (according to the reviews) and you can have 99 companies on it for a fraction of the price of Sage. Its just a thought mind you. The Pro version is a good one, you won't need Premier for what you are going to be using it for. I am still using Pro 2008 as I haven't had the need to upgrade! QB is a similar product to Sage, although I am sure I will be slated for saying that as there are some Sage lovers on here!

Can't say about VT as I have never used it.

I have used Sage instants on numerous occasions due to clients' needs but draw back is only one company per version, I have 3 versions on my laptop which isn't great as you have to load then on differently so they don't get confused with each other. Like you say getting Sage 50 is very expensive. I certainly won't be spending out on it.

hope that helps, this is off course just my opinion.

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:09:59 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

@amanda. I have been recently thinking about QB, but they don't seem to offer any trial, so it is difficult to know what to expect past their flashy presentation which could show a tin of beans to be equal to a bar of gold. How quick is the data entry, and is it as clunky as Sage?

@luther. When you say Sage 50 is cheaper, what are you comparing it to? I don't remember Sage ever being multicompany as standard.

Kris

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:10:37 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

What is that cost, for Sage 50 with 100 clients?

Kris

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:11:06 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Ok, in light of Luthor making comments about Sage being cheaper than other software but being unable to substantiate these claims. I thought I would outline some costs.

Sage 50 is £580 plus VAT for a single company version.

VT Transaction+ (unlimited companies) is £125 + VAT

Quickbooks Pro (multi company to 99 companies) is £269 + VAT but you can pay this monthly for £21 + VAT per month

As you can see, not only is Sage not the cheapest, it's the most expensive of the 3 mentioned so far.

All details have been taken from the respective company websites.

Kris

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:12:08 PM

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:12:55 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

That is to suggest that in every instance for a bookkeeper Sage is more Practical, which is certainly not the case. Far from being pointless, breaking down the costs can prove most useful to other members, especially in the OP who was asking the question. For many new bookkeepers the cost of software can be the difference between being here next month, and not. For many cost is a major part of the buying decision.

I now believe when you said Sage is cheaper what you meant to say is that Sage represents better value. Such a statement is hugely subjective. For instance someone using my business model would find Sage of no value what so ever as it takes longer to process transactions which equates to less profit. If reports were important, or stock control then I can see where the value may be in Sage.

In fact I actually have a copy of Sage 50 and Sage Instant Accounts on my shelf, they are no longer installed on my machine, but if I had a client who wanted some of the benefits of the parts I've mentioned, and more importantly was prepared to pay the extra then I would use them.

One thing you will find as you get into the forum is that when people make recommendations or give advice that it normally backed up with solid reasoning. This is one thing I have noticed in your posts that you don't do. This may be an oversight being a new member but when you provide some justification for your answer it can make it easier to both accept and understand why you are making the suggestions.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Kris

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

lutherparker wrote:
....and my name is Luther not Luthor...ok!

I will strive to get it right in future, sorry.

-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Sunday 8th of January 2012 11:43:13 AM

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 12:09:26 PM

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:09:13 PM

Amanda · Expert

HI Kris,

I can use both Sage and QB, I was trained on sage many years ago. I find QB really user friendly, there are downsides to it off course, but if its only you that is using it ie one user then I don't see thats its a problem at all.

The problem with QB is when its in an office with a license for multi user and then people think oh Joe bloggs can input some data for us today, it doesn't matter that they are in customer services and have never used QB before, because once this happens, it can be awful to unravel! You can delete things quite easy, which if its someone who doesn't know what they are doing it could end up a mess but if its only you using it like its only me using mine I am fine with mine and know exactly what I am doing. Saying that sage can be problematic with people not knowing how to use it properly, you've only got to read some of the posts on here that say I've never used Sage before and the questions that are posted are really quite basic, and then when they are in a mess the questions are to 'how to unravel my mess'!

If you do decide to get it drop me an email if you get stuck and I'll give you a bell and talk you through some of it.

The problem I have with others getting computerised packages for their bookkeeping business, is so many people haven't learnt the manual side first, which in my opinion is crucial, this isn't aimed at you Kris as I know you can do it all anyway, but this is the beginners, its crucial to learn manual bookkeeping in order to have a good knowledge of computerised stuff later.

Going back to QB, there a guy in here (sorry can't remember your name) I think Andersons accountancy he swears by QB. The reports for P & L, audit trail, bal sheet, Debtors,etc are really brilliant, and I believe the latest version is even better now. I was looking at Pro 2010 last night on Amazon, but I see Pro 2012 is a good price too? I do some work with an accounts practice and they don't even have sage on any computer and refuse to even get it, they just don't like it. They use QB.

Like every accounts package there are pros and cons, I haven't got VT so don't know much about it as I am happy with QB.

Hope that helps with your decision, if you have got any other questions feel free to email me.

Amanda · Expert

One thing I forgot to say about QB is their design facility to customise your invoices is very easy to use and the invoices look very professional. I do all my invoices off QB, I have done from the beginning. I don't know if VT can do this or not, or whether you do your invoices from another method?

I designed some invoices for someone once from QB (they had QB but didn't know how to use it properly), and they looked great, they are still using them to this day. Also you can import your logo easily as well. (if you have one).

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Thanks Amanda,

I wish I had bought it earlier in the year when Shaun said how cheap it was, but I missed it. In saying that it would probably just sit on my shelf beside Sage 50 and Instant.

I did have a client who demanded QB for his accounts, but after a chat I discovered it was more his accountant. After speaking to the accountant I worked out that it was because the accountant seemed to be a reseller of QB and was looking for extra income. At the end of the conversation the accountant actually bought VT final accounts. Strange how things work out.

I will eventually get round to trying it.

Kris

Don Tax · Expert

kjmcculloch83 wrote:
..................................
I did have a client who demanded QB for his accounts, but after a chat I discovered it was more his accountant. After speaking to the accountant I worked out that it was because the accountant seemed to be a reseller of QB and was looking for extra income. At the end of the conversation the accountant actually bought VT final accounts. Strange how things work out..................

Thats a good one. What convinced him to buy VT ?

BTW I've never used QB so not anti.... but re-selling itself must prejudice the advice to clients.

TIm

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Kris,

just read through this thread, sorry, been a little lax in my duties as works been getting in the way of forum time.

I think that we've now both been accused of writing responses that Luther finds too long and boring.

I'm all up for healthy debate and quite open to re explaining posts where I've maybe gone into a little too much technical detail (I appreciate that I can at times write too much but I think that's a side affect of studying towards the professional body that I am).

My feeling is that if Luther continues to make unsubstantiated claims and upset longstanding contributors by shouting and becoming abusive in posts then I may be forced to issue a yellow card (to use Peasie's Parlance).

Luther, If you are reading this when giving advice you need to be able to substantiate claims with facts and links. Opinions without evidence are subjective. In this instance Kris is completely correct in that Sage have effectively priced themselves out of the market for many small bookkeeping practices.

Kris, nice one for walking away from that one rather than biting at Luther's last post.

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. Lesley. My vote is for VT. See the thread "Convince me that I don't need Sage" which gives balanced arguement and costs.

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:14:30 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Shaun,

I have to say it took all my willpower, I had a post written but then had flashbacks to a year ago and prefered not to have the sword of damocles hanging above me again.

Kris

-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Sunday 8th of January 2012 03:47:05 PM

Peasie · Expert

I think (if I ever get a bundle of clients) that I would prefer to use Sage 50 for credit based businesses and VT Transaction for mainly cash based businesses. What annoyed me about VT was when it was a business selling on credit to personal customers (ie not businesses) it wouldn't allow you to set up two "Mrs Smith" (or "Smith, Mrs" as I tended to use). I know you're not likely to get two companies with the same name. I ended up with things like "Smith (2), Mrs".

Peasie · Expert

I never knew a Tyke was a person from Yorkshire. You may well be thinking at this point that Peaise has finally (?) flipped bringing this into this debate for no apparent reason. No, I haven't flipped - I was looking on Wordweb what "yorn" (as used above) meant and I happened to glance at the possible suggestions (as yorn wasn't in the dictionary). "Yorkshirewoman" is in the dictionary used.

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:48:46 PM

Peasie · Expert

lutherparker wrote:
You seem very touched Kris

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but you appear (to me at least) to be going out your way to provoke Kris into an argument, for whatever reason I don't know.

I suggest you look above at the comment by Shaun. And also look to the left under his avatar and you will see the words "Forum Moderator". When I see those words I tend to follow the advise given as regards to forum usage.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

lol peasie,

it was just a typo which considering the way I spell I'm not going to pick up on anyone elses spellings... I do find it strange that if someone else writes something and makes a typo I generally spot it but if I make them myself they're totally invisible to me. Wierd. confuse

Kris,

you definitely wouldn't have had a red card this time but if the gauntlet had been lifted it would have detracted from the usual high level of discussion and debate that we have on the site.

Take one million brownie points and a blue peter badge. wink

Luther,

no probs. Happy new year to you to. Hope that it's a prosperous one for you.

Good to have another Sage bod on the site as it seems that there's never enough expertise available in that area and whilst it's something that I use it's certainly not an area that I consider myself an expert in (I'm much more vocal in Excel and VT threads).

Generally I scan read the Sage threads as occassionally they are not really about Sage but rather about accountancy issues and the person just happens to be using Sage.

In general though I don't tend to respond to Sage (or Quickbooks) queries.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Oh dear, I shouldn't have made that cuppa in the middle of writing a reply...

Luther, consider this a yellow card.

Because Kris does not share the same views as you does not warrant the responses evident in this thread.

I have read this entire thread and nothing that Kris has said has been deserving of the responses that he has received

I wil give Kris chance to respond and then I think that I might need to take some tippex to this thread!

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Peasie wrote:
lutherparker wrote:
You seem very touched Kris
I hope you don't take this the wrong way but you appear (to me at least) to be going out your way to provoke Kris into an argument, for whatever reason I don't know.
I suggest you look above at the comment by Shaun. And also look to the left under his avatar and you will see the words "Forum Moderator". When I see those words I tend to follow the advise given as regards to forum usage.

I think I just have one of those faces Peasie. But don't worry I have big shoulders. A 15 year old absconder once told me I have "cold dead eyes" when I was returning him to a childrens unit. I get it all the time, never my neighbour.... me.

Off to cry.

Kris

lutherparker · Veteran Member

-- Edited by lutherparker on Sunday 8th of January 2012 04:47:13 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Shaun, typing at the same time there.

All I really want to say is a huge Sorry to Lesley. She called me the other night after a post on the ICB forum for a chat about her business. I suggested that she ask some of the questions on here because it was a friendly forum and she would get answers quicker than on the ICB forum.

I'm sorry this was your first experience Lesely, its really not normally like this, I hope you stick around and find out.

Cheers Shaun

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Is it all over? has balance returned to the force?

I was on the point of breaking out the helmets and gas masks.

Luther,

kris's comment about flashbacks related to an issue where he was banned from the site a year back due to a disagreement with the same supervisory body that you had an issue with in another thread. The comment was not about you at all but rather the fear that if he had responded in a manner that I probably would have he may have walked into another banning period (which I can assure him he wouldn't have).

Actually Luther, I think under your previous userid (which is still active) that you used to chat regularly with Kris under his former userid kjmcculloch (see this thread for an example : http://www.book-keepers.org.uk/t39479073/cost-per-transaction/)

Lesley,

you have my sincerest appologies as well. We've had several quite heated debates this week. Some constructive such as the debate over acceptable balance sheet formats and some less so.

This really is a very freindly site with a core of people who welcome newcomers and gererally try to look after each other in a leave no bookkeeper behind sort of manner.

Give the site another chance and I'm sure that you will be happy that Kris advised you to ask quesrtions on here.

kindest regards,

Shaun.

-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 8th of January 2012 05:13:24 PM

Rhianrach · Expert

Whats a yellow card?

lutherparker · Veteran Member

Hi Shaun,

I think you need to speak to Kris in private, I think this is an issue that involves just you to. You can't have this happening again. I too have learn't as well and a slap on the wrist for me is done....again sorry to anyone this has concerned.

luther.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Steve, I think Shaun means a yellow card as in football. A first warning if you like before being send off (or banned).

Luther, I'm not sure what issue you think exists between Shaun and I.

Kris

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:
lol peasie,

it was just a typo which considering the way I spell I'm not going to pick up on anyone elses spellings... I do find it strange that if someone else writes something and makes a typo I generally spot it but if I make them myself they're totally invisible to me. Wierd.

To be honest, I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it if I hadn't looked up the "yorkshirewoman" bit. Before I make a post I look over it to see if I've made any typos. Some I don't spot and actually hit the "Show Preview" button before posting because odd as it may seem, typos (for me) are easier to spot, even though I'm looking at basically the same thing. Sometimes they escape even that second look. And sometimes I even leave them in just to avoid that dreaded "Edited by...." bit.

Peasie · Expert

kjmcculloch83 wrote:
Hi Steve, I think Shaun means a yellow card as in football. A first warning if you like before being send off (or banned).

Luther, I'm not sure what issue you think exists between Shaun and I.

Kris

He probably thinks it was Shaun himself that banned you. You were banned long before Shaun had these "Powers".

Rhianrach · Expert

Peasie wrote:
kjmcculloch83 wrote:
Hi Steve, I think Shaun means a yellow card as in football. A first warning if you like before being send off (or banned).

Luther, I'm not sure what issue you think exists between Shaun and I.

Kris
He probably thinks it was Shaun himself that banned you. You were banned long before Shaun had these "Powers".

Are we talking ages ago when the ban was for.......... grrr can't quite remember but it was to do with the ICB evileye

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Yeah, lets not go there again, but I had a small issue with ICB which was fed by an anonymous email which gave me just enough rope to hang myself.

Although, I beleive the ban was for something else unrelated.

Kris

-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Sunday 8th of January 2012 05:51:48 PM

Peasie · Expert

Rhianrach wrote:
Peasie wrote:
kjmcculloch83 wrote:
Hi Steve, I think Shaun means a yellow card as in football. A first warning if you like before being send off (or banned).

Luther, I'm not sure what issue you think exists between Shaun and I.

Kris
He probably thinks it was Shaun himself that banned you. You were banned long before Shaun had these "Powers".
Are we talking ages ago when the ban was for.......... grrr can't quite remember but it was to do with the ICB

That's the one. Even Kris and James get along with each other now.

lutherparker · Veteran Member

What happened then Kris, with ICB

luther

Don Tax · Expert

I think I'm correct in saying the Preview button also brings up posts which may have been added whilst composing ones own. Saves 'crossing in the post' so to speak.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Tim,

I don't normally use the advanced editor so preview isn't available. Must get into the habbit of using advanced. Cheers for the pointer.

Luther / Kris,

Absolutely no problems at all between Kris and myself. We've had differing opinions in the past but always handled in a professional and curteous manner. I'm certainly not going to fall out with anyone or hold a grudge just because they don't see things the same way as myself. That certainly wouldn't get me very far in this business where there is often more than one correct answer (see the balance sheet thread) and also todays correct answer is tomorrows incorrect one as things in the accountancy field are quite dynamic... Say that to anyone outside the business and you would probably be met either with a blank stare or fits of laughter.

As mentioned above the banning happened before I was a moderator and actually whilst I was away from the site for six months on contract to one of the banks. That whole episode is now water under the bridge.

It's things like Kris's banning (which was a big loss to the site) that make me try my best to jump on matters before they get out of hand.

I've banned a lot of spammers but so far I think that we've been able to resolve all differences of opinion amongst genuine site members without things escalating to anything like a banning or suspension.

On the ICB and Kris issue I think that the whole matter is best left well alone. It was only brought up in this post due to a very specific set of circumstances. The whole episode is now dead and burried and thankfully Kris is back giving advice on the site.

Right, fingers crossed that's now all sorted and we can all get back to debatring the format of balance sheets and the length that Summer Glau's hair should be!

Steve,

yes, a yellow card is a warning. Red card is a sending off. Banning should be an absolute last resort when every other avenue has been tried or for acts which have caused unjustified extreme offence to fellow members or done something to lessen the status of the profession or perceived quality of the site.

Once someone has been banned it's not the userid that gets the chop it's the ip address which effectively stops them from setting up a new account with the site.

If ever anyone is banned and feels that they have been treated badly then an appeal may be lodged in writing with Steve who will talk to me about the ban and then can if he see's fit override any banning order that I issue.

If you are banned by Steve then you can talk to me and I can put your case but ultimately Steve owns the site and has final say.

Rhianrach · Expert

You should get drunk and just ban everyone one night biggrin .

I couldn't be a moderator of a forum for this very reason.

Last time and only time that I was, it had a filter that meant I could turn words typed by the user into something else, it was designed for swearys, so (insert rude word here beginning with f and ending in k) would be turned into something like fluff. I got drunk and innocently started with a few words and got carried away, the whole site became jibberish and I forgot what I had changed.

*note to Steve, never ever make me a mod*

Oh and in the interests of the forum and the OP (the thread appears to be a tad dis-railed), I've only ever used sage so can't comment on the best one to use. I would recommend downloading all the free trials and seeing which one suits best.

-- Edited by Rhianrach on Sunday 8th of January 2012 07:23:32 PM

Don Tax · Expert

Shamus wrote:
Hi Tim,

I don't normally use the advanced editor so preview isn't available. Must get into the habbit of using advanced. Cheers for the pointer.
.............

Ahhh thanks Shaun. My apologies, I didn't think through what I was saying then. I meant to say switching from the 'Quick Reply' area to 'Advanced Editor' updates the thread to include the latest postings.
It's so easy not to express oneself properly in two dimensions. Again, I was lazy the other day, when I used the word 'brigade' when referring to the outsourced computer sector. It gave an unintentioned slant to everything I said.
Glad g/f doesn't proofread my postings -- must book my ideas up now at guru level lol
kind regards,
Tim

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Following quickly in your footsteps Tim, I'll soon be there once more.

And every pointless post like this is one step closer.

Kris

lutherparker · Veteran Member

Shaun,

How long should Summer Glau's hair be?

luther

Peasie · Expert

lutherparker wrote:
Shaun,
How long should Summer Glau's hair be?
luther

Well, looking at the picture posted on the other thread, I suggest she goes for the Sinéad O'Connor look.

Rhianrach · Expert

Peasie wrote:
lutherparker wrote:
Shaun,
How long should Summer Glau's hair be?
luther
Well, looking at the picture posted on the other thread, I suggest she goes for the Sinéad O'Connor look.

I have to say I'm not a perve, but yeah short short would be nice.