I have trawled through many posts about this and have been on the internet a lot trying to solve my problems, but can't seem to sort it out and now I am panicking about time as our VAT is due at the end of March. Could someone please help with the area below:
I started work in December for a company and have been posting to Sage during this time with no opening balances. Then I received the trial balance from the old accountants 2 weeks ago.
1. 90% of my trade creditors have alreday been posted (for services that appertain to prior year teaching). Therefore, If I use the O/Bal procedure in Sage, won't they be posted twice (every after the reverse procedure is used), as they are posted and paid already.
2. Silly question I know, but where do I post the trade creditors and debtors totals from the trial balance - to the relevant control accounts or suspense?
3. Even sillier, but I am in such a muddle that if I don't ask, I will never get to the bottom of it: for overhead/expense items on the trial balance... do I post to a nominal code 4000 and above (as appropriate), or to suspense? If I post to the nominal codes >4000, the p&l overheads are overstated as the year progresses??
When the procedures above are all sorted and the TB is fully posted and suspense zero'd; what should the following be:
1. The TB b/fwd - should it mimic the opening trial balance from the accountants?
2. The P&L b/fwd should be blank...and the 1st month should reflect only trading from 1st Dec onwards?
If anyone can help me I would be so grateful as I am now just going round in circles.
I would put on the opening balance adjustments (they should really be provided by the accountants). You need to post them as a journal dated the last day of the year that has just been completed.
Post the debtors and creditors to suspense and put on the internal debtors/creditors invoices/credit notes posted to suspense too contra the journal.
You shouldn't need any postings at all to the profit and loss (overhead/expense) codes.
When this procedure is finished the brought forward TB should agree exactly to the final accounts you have been given.
The brought forward profit and loss items should be zero.
I'm assuming you have year ended the sage? if not you will need to do this too.
If you need any help let me know.
I don't understand point 1 because the debtors and creditors at the year end should be paid afterdate so even if you have allocated payments against the invoices then the opening balance adjustments won't affect these.
Thank you for your response, sorry I haven't been back quicker, but I have had to be away from my computer.
the accountants have provided me with closing trial balance and very basic schedules of trade creditors/debtors and bank rec. The schedules are a little like trying to find a needle in a haystack as none have references i.e. the credits accounts just list the date, amounts and the analsis, not who they are or any invoice numbers. Should I ask for more?
With the overhead brought forward amounts on the trial balance, i.e. light and heat, rent etc.. where then do I post if not to P&L codes... is it suspense, in which case, where do I post the entries to zero out the suspense account?
Andy, what exactly are the "internal" debtors/ creditors... do you mean the actual individual invoices/credit notes posted that make up the trade creditors and trade debtor amounts on the trial balance...?
Sorry to be a pain with this, but just can't get my head around it as it's been so long since I needed to post opening balances.
Year end, by the way was 30.11.11 and the new year started on a new internal Sage system; so I'm fairly new to the version of Sage and the company accounts.
If the TB given by your accountants is an opening/closing balance TB then there should be no balances on any expense account. Opening balances are usually just Balance Sheet figures as the accountants will already have done the accounts, posted all expenses/overheads to the P & L account, leaving only BS figures.
Are you sure it is opening/closing balances they have given you and not just a list of adjustments before doing the year end? Perhaps you could post the TB on here somehow so that we could take a look?
All expenses are usually (in the standard coa) nominal code 7000 and above. (You mentioned 4000).
Many thanks for your help... the trial balance is what they have sent along with the final accounts. It lists everything from sales, opening stocks... rent & rates... admin costs, training costs etc... then continues to list balance sheet items such as fixed assets, trade debtors, bank deposits etc... all in TB form as debits and credits accordingly.
Bit strange then. Normally I would expect just a list of Balance Sheet opening balances. Perhaps you should telephone the accountants and ask for some clarification?
Would I be right in saying that a closing trial balance should only list the balance sheet items? Also, what is normal practice for opening balances to start from... would it be a full trial balance or a closing trial balance? The reason I ask is that I don't want to look too stupid (feeling that way already as it's been so long since I've done this), when I speak to the accountants. However, from the extremely skeletal creditor list, I have a feeling that as they lost the business they aren't being very unhelpful.
A closing TB should list only the balance sheet items at year end. In Sage this will include nominal codes down to 3999. If you are starting a new set of accounts at the start of a company's financial year, on a blank Sage, then you should only have balance sheet balances.
If the company has been using Sage for a few years then normally you just get a TB of adjustments from the accountant at year end. After posting these as a journal you then run the Year End and check that the b/f TB is the same as the accountant's TB.
The accountants should do a schedule that looks like this:
Nominal code Per clients closing tb Per final accounts Adjustments
0020 Plant and machinery 10000 8000 2000
etc etc
You should be given the list of adjustments in the right column to post onto sage just as a standard journal. If there are adjustments to the creditors or debtors control they should be posted to suspense account. You should then get a list of creditor/debtor invoices/credit notes to post (also to suspense account to contra the journal) Nothing should be posted to any profit & loss code (4000 onwards) as all the profit and loss adjustments would get posted to code 3200 (or whatever the code is on your system) in one lump sum for retained profit.
It is normal to only post the opening balance adjustments 3 months after the year end as they can only be done once the final accounts are completed. All you need to do as a bookkeeper is that you don't post anything dated before the year end date once you have gave the back up to the accountant to start work on the year end accounts. Once you give them the back up in future you will need to make sure you year end your sage.
If the accountants refuse to give you proper opening balance adjustments it is possible to prepare them from the final accounts but thats a last resort & i would advise to find a new accountant :P
Hi There Not been on for abouta month or so, so just picking up messages.
It appears what the accountant has given you is their closing trial balance (perhaps from their own accounts package) which will list all the balances for the year ie balance sheet items and profit and loss items.
What they need to give you is the brought forward trial balance which will roll all the profit and loss items into the profit and loss reserve in the balance sheet. You would then need to adjust your opening balances to agree to these to agree to the accountants. Problems occur if they have combined SAGE accounts under one heading eg other creditors which makes it difficult to identify what agrees to what.
Alternatively, i would get them to come out and adjust your SAGE opening balances so it agrees to the final accounts. I would expect any accountant to do this as part of the accounts package they offer.
Hi ..I'm new to all this and just wanted to check something regarding year end & opening balance adjustments for a year on 31st Oct 2012. Is this the correct procedure below:
Run year end in sage- Am I correct in saying that sage will clear all P&L nominals and carry forward balance sheet items only When I get the opening balance adjustments later in the year do i change my progarm date to 31st October and do journal reversals to clear nominals on last day and repost new TB given to me by the accountant. I just want to check how I actually post the adjustments. I have seen adjustments on a spreadsheet before but iftit for example i need to increase my debtors and i debit debtors ,where does the credit get posted. i have been told all adjustments go to Capital and I've been told to post a normal journal to sales. I thought it was only balance sheet items that were adjusted so I did'nt think you ever needed to touch the P&l. Also if someone could explain how to post the opposite side of the adjustments for bank, prepayments etc. Benn trying to figure this out from forums but I'm confused!!. Thanks
