Hi all, I am not only new to the forum but new to the finance world. This forum looks friendly and helpful so here I am. I am at a stage where I need a new career. The main objective for me is to be a self employed accountant. I am not dreaming of an eventual client list full of successful SME's, quite the reverse, my sights are much much lower. Forty or fifty self employed tradesmen and/or maybe a selection of small LLCs' per year. Easier said than done I know, however we all have to have a goal!
My situation is this: I am fifty two years old now and studying for a qualification to get me a job in accounting (or any discipline) is futile. I have to be realistic, ageism IS alive and kicking. So three years of my time studying is my investment to my future. I had spent over twenty years running my own small firm (electronics) but always had a bookkeeper and accountants' telling me where my business stood - not surprisingly - I know very little about accounting! I am also very fortunate to be married to a very successful corparate lawyer partner in a large national law firm so need never work again if I chose. I am a househusband and tearing my hair out, I need to work!
So, three years full time study is not a problem but any qualification that takes less time would be a great bonus. I have been told AAT takes three years to complete, however, so does the full qualification of an ACCA I understand. Being that I only want to do the accounts of very small firms:
(1) Is beating my brains up for three years going for ACCA necessary, or will the relatively easier study for AAT (or CAT) be all I need?
(2)Do I have to find employment in an accounting environment as a mandatory necessity to gaining a qualification? ( I could volunteer my services free).
(3) Do I need certain qualifications to get on the courses? ( I have a BA Hons in History degree, pretty worthless to accounting I assume).
Any help at all in guding me will be very much appreciated. I know you can look all this up on the web sites of the accounting bodies but un-biased help from practising professionals like many on this forum is much more valuable to me.
Someone's telling you porkies. You could not do the full ACCA qualification in three years.
The first three papers are relatively straight forwards. As you would be coming to it via the Mature Student Entry Route (MSER) you have two years to pass the first three papers.
The first three ACCA papers are the equivalent knowledge of the full AAT qualification.
The next six papers move up a gear. There are two sittings a year in June and December. You can take a maximum of four papers in any one sitting but to be honest taking any more than two in a sitting is foolhardy.
Certain papers compliment each other and if you decide to go down this route I would be happy to tell you which one's fit best together.
The last five papers include paper P2 which is known as the beast and is officcially the most difficult accounting paper of any supervisory body.
As a rule of thumb if you are doing this from scratch I would work to the following timescale.
Papers 1-3 : 18 months
Papers 4 - 9 : 2 papers a sitting with 1 failure in 3 sittings : 2 to 3 years
Papers P1 to P3 : 1 year
Any two from P4 to P7 : 1 year
Total : 6 - 8 years commitment.
Those who do it faster have exemptions and come to it with prior knowledge.
The level of study is :
F1 to F3 : NVQ level
F4 to F9 : Bsc. level
P1 to P7 : Msc level
Note also that as things stand at the moment passing the exams will not help you as you need 2 years post qualification working in a recognised practice in order to gain a practicing certificate.
Without a practicing certificate you are restricted to only being able to offer bookkeeping, payroll and VAT services unless properly supervised (see ACCA regulation 8).
Even if you are a member of other organisations the ACCA rules take precedence over the rules of other organisations
Ok, lets disregard ACCA and look at your other options.
ICB and IAB are bookkeeping qualifications that wander into accountancy territory. For offering services to the general public there is a lot to be said for gaining one of these but they won't get you very far without experience if you were looking to find permanent work.
AAT you've already seen and is a fine qualification. Again though there is an experience requirement before you can fly solo.
FIA is the new entry level offering from the ACCA. My understanding though is that as you are still an ACCA student regulation 8 still applies.
CIMA is a little more flexible than ACCA over students offering their services to the general public.
IFA gained IFAC accreditation last year. They are a quality organisation and I'm in the process of moving from ACCA to IFA myself. (just trying to beat the rush!).
AIA is an organisation that was the equivalent level to IFA but I would say that since gaining IFAC accreditation IFA has sprinted ahead. However, you never know when organisations have something up their sleeve to launch themselves back into pole position. (I for one didn't see the IFAC accreditation coming for the IFA).
I think that's covered all of the usual suspects.
Onto the other question about your History degree... That's absolutely perfect for accounting!
Many people think that accounting is all about maths. it's not. Don't get me wrong, you certainly need to know your numbers but just as much it's about making sure that clients stay within the law and there are an awful lot of laws, regulations, standards, etc. to memorise for which a background in History or Law is perfect.
I would still say that ACCA is the best of the above qualifications but the above is just meant as a warning that whilst it's the best it may ultimately prove next to useless for your needs (although it's the best accounts training that you can get).
Anyway, more messages to read so I'll post this one and be on my way. Sure that there will be lots of follow up questions to ask once you've had chance to visit the websites of all of the above suggestions.
Hope that helped for starters,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Wow, thanks Shaun! It was an AAT guy working for the NHS that told me off the cuff that full ACCA acreditation only took three years full time study, me now thinks there is an awful lot of jealousy and ignorance on his part. I will now totally dismiss the ACCA 'pipe dream' and look at the CAT or AAT. All the above organisations' full qualifications', as you pointed out, are very much at a similar level and way beyond my time scale (and perhaps my abillity!). The bookkeping courses are well worth looking at too and with further 'swatting' I may just be able to offer the tradesman a cheaper alternative by doing the accounts and getting into bed with an accountant to scrutinise and sign the work off, for a fee of course.
Thankyou, you have been most helpful, I dare say which ever course I take, I will be back here asking how the hell that nominal account entry or other never balanced!
Great forum, keep up the good work Shaun, invaluable.
From your description of what you intend to achieve, IAB and ICB full qualifications are achievable within a 2 year period, obviously there's some graft involved but no pain no gain.
Plus i think they offer insurances too.
You don't need to be an accountant to do accounts.
ACCA give you 10 years to pass for a reason. I believe myself to be an average student but with the exception of having no little uns running around and a day job that affords me 3 or 4 hours of study time, yet i would still allow myself a minimum of 6 years to gain ACCA. anything less is a bonus, to expect anything less is just silly. Remember the six month wait for a resit?
So all the qualifications are do-able given different time scales, but alas you still need some kind of experience to back them up.
I have a feeling you can afford to offer a little voluntary work Paul.
-- Edited by Spamkebab on Friday 23rd of March 2012 05:53:14 AM
-- Edited by Spamkebab on Friday 23rd of March 2012 05:57:03 AM
I suspect one wouldn't need 6 - 8 years if they are studying full time rather than part time alongside work. Though of course since I'd expect one would start looking for customers before passing everything, that longer estimate might well be fair. And then there's also the issue that in this specific case, you are coming into this cold with no prior related knowledge, which will mean you'll need more time.
By the way, CAT is part of ACCA, which means ACCA regulation 8...
Hi KTC and Spamkebab, Thankyou for your advice. I suspect passing papers 1-9 of ACCA would be more than enough qualification for what I intend doing, however, as Shaun and KTC says, regulation 8 would stop me in my tracks. Interesting point Spamkebab, you don't need qualifications I understand to call yourself an accountant unlike Doctors and Solicitors, ( criminal in my mind, the damage one could cause to another's business is evident ). Anyway, IAB/ICB plus CAT are what I think I will do added to a voluntary post. Thankyou all once again for your time in replying.
you don't need qualifications I understand to call yourself an accountant unlike Doctors and Solicitors
However, that's not to say that it's not a loophole that will not be resolved.
A petition signed by several thousand qualified accountants was quashed by the last administration who, to be quite honest had about as much idea about business as they did about finance!
The reasoning given for quoshing the petition was that too many unqualified people acting as accountants would lose their livelihoods if the term accountant was enshrined in law.
So, following that logic I think that we should all call ourselves pilots.... Anyone who survives the first week can call themselves QBE (qualified by experience)
The ICB are trying to get what bookkeepers do enshrined in statute and if successful I can see the accountancy bodies following the precedent as (as noted above) it's certainly something that they've attempted to do in the past.
Anyone who sets up as an accountant without either serious qualifications and/or considerable relevant experience is just a lawsuit waiting to happen and even if they've managed to get PII insurance, if on investigation the insurance company determines that one was not qualified to offer the services that went wrong then the PII isn't actually worth the paper that it's written on.
So, in conclusion. Yes, anyone can call themselves an accountant but to do such is dangerous both in terms of being sued and having your earnings potential snatched away from under you by a long overdue change in the law.
In short.... Get qualified.
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
'you don't need qualifications I understand to call yourself an accountant unlike Doctors and Solicitors'
I didn't actually mean that, although you are correct. What i was trying to say was that you can be a highly qualified bookkeeper within a couple of years and be able (if you have the experience and competence) to offer most services to clients without becoming an accountant. I was aiming at the name more than a lack of qualification, this is the bit that screws me up now, finding the line that you cross to become an accountant from a bookkeeper.
I know i will be calling myself an accountant after completion of AAT because i can, because i'm worth it, but i am a bookkeeper with a certificate that says diploma in accounting on it.
