Can anyone give me some advice re accounting sw? I'm starting my own BK business as a sole trader and want to do the books for sole traders and small businesses.
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
By the way, one of the reasons why we have chosen Xero is because we believe they will not disappear and if people research them they can make their own mind up. At this time I only think the early adopters are using Xero etc. But, my bet is that their security and stability is much better than 99% of bookkeepers/accountants.
Strangely, I bet a lot of people would have said the same about farepak, Game, Woolworths, MFI and the other major brands which have disappeared from the high street, or will soon.
Like yourself, Bill, I wouldn't rule out cloud. My main concern is business continuity. I'm not so worried about security as I think it's pretty sewn up with most. The other thing that puts me off is paying a fee each month for each client because I dont feel most offer anything traditional accounting software doesn't.
Kris
-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Sunday 1st of April 2012 04:04:27 PM
The choice of software is easy when you know/define precisely what type of clients are you going to work with, how are you going to work, what you (and they) are going to do and what your core value proposition is.
If you are going to offer a traditional bookkeeping service then perhaps VT will work well for you. It is inexpensive and well known in the accounting profession, but I'd suggest you consider the new breed of online systems because they enable you to offer something different. And, without being different you may find it difficult to win work.
So, my first recommendation (if you want to be different) is Xero.
without being different you may find it difficult to win work.
Hi Bob,
do you really believe that lines true?
In my experience clients want accountants who do the job economically, efficiently and effectively in a traditional manner.
Tell a client that you want them to pay £19 a month, every month, forever and there will just be this empty space where two minutes previously the client was stood.
On the other hand selling them on installing and using VT Cashbook for free is a lot more acceptable approach.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Sorry Bob, I dont think I explained well. I don't mind an investment if there's a return. But to pay an extra £20 a client when I don't beleive cloud offerings add anything about the traditional software isn't an opportunity for me (except to waste money).
I understand others have different views, and that may be because they have a different client base. I'm happy with what I have for now, but thats not to say that I'm not progressive or don't look for opportunities.
I think I agree shaun. iphone didn't really do anything really different from earlier smartphones, in my opinion. I remember the nokia communicator 9000 which I thought was the first real step into smartphones. The rest seemed to build on that. So I agree, when iphone came along, palm and windows os was in smartphones, Blackberry was here, so it was a proven market.
Kris
-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Sunday 1st of April 2012 06:20:24 PM
Shamus - yes, I do believe what I say. This line is used by manner but understood by few; it comes from the concept of Positioning.
There is an excellent book called "Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind" which explains how the mind works. The crux is that there are categories (like folders) in our mind and when these are full, no more information is allowed in. So, if a new bookkeeper/accountant wants to get noticed and win business they need to appear to be different, or they will literally be ignored.
The "e" words (economical, efficient and effective) you use are interesting, but money is only part of the story.
There needs be extra value for the client to be happy to pay the extra costs. And, there are extra benefits to Xero and that's what I'd recommend Books11 focus on or he will be judged on price alone and that is not a good place to be.
iPad, unique idea... You mean as described in the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams in 1979! Same story with Mobile phones. Its been documented that the communicators off startrek were the inspiration for mobiles (and probably why so many of the flip tops looked like star trek communicators).
Anyway, as with many other toys that were the must haves of their day I'm not seeing any long term business usage for the ipad as current business usage seems to be all about people attempting to tyre lever laptop functionality into it... Why not just use a laptop which lets be honest is for the most part much cheaper and much more functional and business oriented.
Always remember the old line "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I've got boxes full of these toys that were the must have's of their day... Psion series 5, Psion series 7, HP Jornada... betamax player.
Just praying at the moment that the Kindle goes the same way into oblivion as all of the other must haves of their day.... Replace printed media indeed, think we all need a good Kindle burning party.
Of course, not every toy that I've bought over the years was a complete failure as a business tool.
The Toshiba T120 FB really launched the laptop computer... Mind you, can't believe that I spent £3k on a machine that had 512k memory and twin floppies with no hard drive!
Also can't believe that after 20 years that machine still works where so many of the others that I've bought since don't.
As a complete, slightly related, aside, I love the line from the big bang theory where sheldon refuses to buy anything by Apple as they are devaluing the term Genius (referring to the genius bar in apple stores).
Shaun.
P.S. Editied because the first paragraph was a little too contentious about the business worth of the ipad.
The change meant moving everything around but it still says the same as it did previously.
-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 2nd of April 2012 11:18:01 AM
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
@bob What happens to your client records if Xero disappear? I much prefer to have the records residing on my computer where I am in full control of it and the backup procedures.
@Kris - if your criteria is that data must be on your computer then you must choose technology that supports that.
By the way, one of the reasons why we have chosen Xero is because we believe they will not disappear and if people research them they can make their own mind up. At this time I only think the early adopters are using Xero etc. But, my bet is that their security and stability is much better than 99% of bookkeepers/accountants.
@bob What happens to your client records if Xero disappear? I much prefer to have the records residing on my computer where I am in full control of it and the backup procedures.
Kris
Kris
This has always been one of my worries but I have looked at a few, and as far as I can see, most, including Xero seem to have the facility to run, and export data to pdf; or Excel. At worst I would say that pdf copies of ledger entries etc could be kept on a local PC.
I am still reluctant to go to cloud accounting (my client base wouldn't go that route anyway) but won't rule it out entirely.
99%...lol, nothing like a sweeping generalisation there
Sounds like Barney Stinsons 83% always being the answer to all statistics questions.
We did it on the site some time back about peoples backup procedures and it seemed that even the smallest practices had multiple often offsite backups.
As for security. Everyone has firewalls and anti virus in place and the key is that the bookkeeper rather than a third party controls it. I know that if I get a flash up of an intrusion attempt the first thing that I do is switch off the internet until I've performed a full system scan.
In some ways I think that cloud offerings can be likened to the sinclair C5. Nobody asked for it, nobody wanted it, but everyone was told that they needed it... Whilst I don't expect that cloud to suffer the same fate as too many companies have invested too much money in trying to convince us that we need it I'm just not seeing it becoming a major contender to traditional software offerings anytime soon (if ever).
I know that Microsoft would dearly love for us all to go pay as you go with their products but that doesn't seem to have taken off as business has no intention of paying every month for a product that when they buy it they see it as a one off purchase for the life of the machine that it's installed on (Is it just coincidence that the UK head of Xero moved to them from Microsoft?).
In conclusion, I wish Xero the very best of luck in an overcrowded market place. I'm sure that of the current incumbants they will be one of the survivors but if one applies Porters five forces analysis to that market it's certainly not one where one would choose to invest one's life savings.
Think of it.
- Threat of new entrants : high
- Threat from alternate products : High
- Bargaining power of suppliers : Low
- Bargaining power of customers : High
- Infighting amongst incumbant firms : High
So basically red straight accross the board. Can't think of a worse showing for an industry than that.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Michael Porter. Brilliant man and to my mind puts into shadow the likes of Johnsone, Scholes and Whittington who only seem to stand upon the shoulders of better theorists such as Porter yet come accross as the demi Gods of management consultants.
I would say that the threat of alternate products for bookkeepers / accountants would be low. There are alternate products but the demand from customers is for the existing products/services rather than alternatives.
All of the others I reckon that you're right.
There was demand for the iPhone before it was released as proven by the way people were using Psion's connected to their mobiles. The iPhone simply incorporated everything into a single unit simplifying the process of communication on the move. So fulfilling a genuine need.
I don't think that such can be compared to cloud offerings which have been introduced top down rather than bottom up (for other reading this top down refers to a product introduced on the grounds that it's very existance will create demand rather than bottom up which is where there is a demand which is then fulfilled).
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
@Kris & Shaun if you are not convinced about the iPhone, how about the iPad? No one was looking for that before it was created.
@Kris - as regards a return on investment from cloud software like Xero, I am not sure about your client base/business model but I see value in joint working arrangements, bank feeds, API connections and mobile access. However, I do understand those benefits are not relevant to everyone and we have our own software for those clients.
Bob, I agree for collaboration cloud works well. Personally I have no need for this. When I have others working with me we have a secure online storage vault which I have control of. However I still think you can offer something a bit 'different' without leaping into the cloud.
I'm in the process of updating my company website in the transition from a bookkeeping to an accountancy practice and I've taken a very important note on differentiation of service from this thread.
I'm actually stating amongst the selling points for using our services that :
"We do not use nor will ever use cloud based software".
Which is right up there with :
"your books and records will only ever be maintained by UK based qualified Accountants and Bookkeepers".
So, we differentiate our services by being traditional in a world hell bent on change seemingly merely for the sake of it.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I think thats quite an interesting thing to do Shaun. I think there is a thought process that says if you don't buy into cloud you must be a Luddite. I had an interesting conversation with a friend about it today. He runs a software design company and works for big names like GSK and the NHS. Although he accepts the benefits cloud can offer he told me he would never use it for his finance or critical business systems, unless there was a contact term that if the provider had any difficulties or went into administration they would release the source code and backups to their customers.
Maybe it's my background in IT that makes me so sceptical of entrusting my data to a third party regardless as to their heritage as I've witnessed first hand what can go wrong when a software supplier folds or just as bad changes their systems in a way that takes something away that the client regarded as a key feature replacing it with something that the clients hate.... Does the client blame the third party? No, they blame you as you are the one who inflicted the third party software upon them so they believe that you have some way of changing things back again.
I've dealt with so many software development companies and accross the board they always feel that they know best and give the client what they feel that they need rather than what the client actually wants.
Actually, there's a cartoon about this that I'm off to try and find. Back in a second.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
@Kris - the collaboration I was thinking about was with clients and other technology; the client can invoice and do credit control while we do the purchase ledger, bank and VAT. And, Xero uses can use technology like Debtor Daddy.
In terms of how cloud can help, I was speaking with a franchisee this afternoon about how best to support a client who is REALLY struggling for time. The client is working nights and weekends while he gets his business off the ground and does his own bookkeeping using our own offline system. But, he is not keeping his books up to date so we are going to suggest Xero. The feeds will save some data entry and he work on his iPhone in the day when he has a few minutes here and there.
We love our software and it is really fast but for some clients the cloud is just better.
Mind you, can't believe that I spent £3k on a machine that had 512k memory and twin floppies with no hard drive!
I remember my first "real" computer (after the amstrad 256 which I still have in the loft) cost £2K and had one 5.25 floppy drive (proper floppy) and something like 40 MB hard disk, after a while I installed extra RAM so that we could run a very early version of Autocad for hubbie. Amazing how things have changed. Computers got smaller and processing and storage bigger.
