I do the bookkeeping and payroll for one of my clients, and I'm having real trouble getting the information I need from him.
One example is the payroll - he won't come up with an annual gross salary for himself and his employees, and just pays a seemingly random amount to everyone each month. He then won't get around to telling me what the amounts are, so I have to wait until I get hold of the bank statement to work out what the last month's payroll should be.
On one occasion, he didn't make the payments until after the month end, so I didn't find out what they were until the middle of the following month, i.e. well after his HMRC payment was due.
This is just one example - I have similar (but less pressing) problems with the bookkeeping. I just don't know what to do with him. Do I persevere with trying to get him to do things properly? Do I just accept that he's disorganised, work round him, and tell him what the likely consequences are? Or should I cut my losses and tell him to find a new bookkeeper?
Sorry for the rant! I just feel very stressed by it all, particularly since I've not been doing this for very long. I would be very grateful for any advice.
Regarding the payroll, what do the staff think of it, does he pay them on time but without a payslip?
Try and educate him thats its not good enough the way its run, but failing that you may have to get rid of him? Make sure if he gets fined for not paying HMRC the correct time that he doesn't blame you for it. Just a thought surely the staff have got contracts with their pay on it?
Thanks for your reply Amanda. The staff are quite young and don't seem to know what they should be expecting - also I suspect that they know admin isn't his strong point and are just used to it. He generally pays them around the end of the month, but you're right that they don't get a pay slip. I believe they do have contracts, but I think it just says that they get the minimum wage. I haven't been able to establish how many hours they work, so I'm not much further forward.
I have told him the same things several times now, and basically he's not interested. I think he took me on to make it all go away, and he doesn't want me to bother him. You're quite right about making sure he doesn't blame me for any fines - I will make sure he knows the score.
I'm self-employed, which makes it easier I guess. I just don't want to give up when I should be doing my best to for a client who clearly needs some help in this respect.
The problem is some clients just can't be helped and he sounds like one of them unfortunately!
Put it in writing about the fines that he will get so there is no comeback on you.
If its really bad I would be inclined to walk away maybe? Like you say being self-employed is easier.
Does he pay you ok? Do you work at his premises or from home?
He is meant to issue a payslip each month to the employees either on payday or a day or so before payday. Issueing it late or not at all is just not good enough and he needs to be told.
There's no need to give up. He'll be paying the fines, and you'll be his best friend when he realises that you're only trying to help -- hopefully before he receives too many fines. Maybe try handing him this :-
I will email him this afternoon and tell him what the consequences are if he doesn't get things done on time. I will also mention the payslip matter - I knew the employees should be getting them at payday, but I don't think I've emphasised that enough to the client.
He doesn't pay me on time either - I specified BACS payment within 7 days on his letter of engagement (which he signed), but so far he's only paid one of my invoices, weeks late, and by cheque. He has two months' worth of outstanding invoices that I'm currently chasing. I work at his premises.
The bookkeeping is difficult too, because what appears in my in-tray is not very helpful. A lot of missing receipts, some personal stuff which may or may not have gone through the business bank account, purchase invoices that may or may not have been paid. He keeps paying himself dividends without any reference to the other shareholders.
The whole thing just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, but I am quite inexperienced and I'm not sure whether this is something that I just have to contend with because some clients are just difficult!
If hes not paid you and you are still going into his premises, tell him that you will NOT be returning until he has paid what is owed. You don't want to work for nothing! Then asked to be paid on time otherwise work will stop again, he will call you bluff but go for it what have you got to loose.
I had one of these, I learnt the hard way and kept at it for 2 years until I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. Admittedly there were no employees to deal with, but paperwork was non existent, never paid on time, had to spend a fortune in phone calls chasing my money, in the end he was not worth the hassle and I was so pleased I got rid of him. He has changed his company name twice since then and is still very dodgy.
The call is yours of course, but I know what I would be thinking right now. The thing is you can try your hardest but it sounds like he is a lost cause!
Hopefully someone else will be on here with their opinion.
Right through the thread I was thinking "I would tell him what he should be doing but if he chooses not to then fine", but I wouldn't dump him just because of that. Right up until you said he has outstanding invoices. My approach to this is if I don't get paid it's pens down until I do. A client who doesn't pay is worse than no client at all. I would dump him and chase the debt through the courts.
It's always hard to lose a client, but unless we cut off the dead wood once in a while we dont have the time to cultivate new clients.
I totally agree with you Kris, like I said it took me 2 years to learn my lesson, and NEVER again!
Some are just really bad at their paperwork but if they pay you ok then thats fine and you can try and educate them to do things better, but when they don't pay you, then thats another story.
Concentrate on getting new good clients, there are some out there and then you can tell him to P*%@ ???!
Thankyou all for your good advice - I feel much more confident that I'm not making a big issue out of something insignificant. I won't be going back until my two invoices have been paid, and in the mean time I've emailed him setting out where he stands with the payroll, i.e. we can continue as we are, but he will end up getting penalties. His choice!
Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate your help.
I had one a couple of years ago who DID pay me, by standing order, but he was a bloody nightmare. He was a really nice guy, full of good intentions, but never did as you asked. In the end I had to get rid for my sanity!
I do wonder where the point comes that you should get rid of a client because of your stress levels, rather than because of anything more concrete like not paying, or being dodgy. It should be one of the perks of self-employment, that you're in a position to relieve yourself of the clients who take up too much of your time (the 80/20 rule, perhaps). But I think I would feel guilty about letting them down. This particular one isn't even a nice guy, and I'm still not sure!
When I first started I felt, a bit like Amanda, that I had to keep all the clients I got. Mainly because for a while I didn't know when and from where the next was coming. To let a client go felt like I had failed.
Then I realised that the client had failed, not me. I always keep my side of the agreement but if they don't then you need to weigh up the hassle and money with your time and sanity.
Now I can be totally ruthless, cutting people without a second thought. Some marketing 'gurus' believe you should regularly cut your bottom 10% of client based on their fees, to allow you to grow the business. I don't buy into this, I have plenty of smaller jobs, annually for self assessment of private landords and thy give me no problems at all. The data is presented to me on time, and in the agreed format and the job is straight forward.
Only once have I decided to change my mind after deciding to cut a client, the phoned me to talk me round, and managed. Right now I'm regretting it.
Kris
