Anyone used Arlington for PII? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Jen81 · Veteran Member

Anyone used Arlington for PII?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I have,

the insurance is actually through Zurich with a six year tail off so quality assurance.

Stuart Dunns a great guy. Spoke to him the other day and he wasn't trying to push a sale, just wanted to know if I was a happy chappy with the product.

Very professional service fronting a sound product. No complaints at all from me... In fact, don't think that I've seen a bad word said against them on the site

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. I have no link to Arlington other than having my PII through them.

Kishan · Veteran Member

Hi,

I too have signed up with Arlington. In fact I signed up in May.

As Shaun correctly says, the policy is underwritten by Zurich.

The service I have received thus far has been faultless. Stuart has been very helpful with any questions I have asked especially as it was the first time I bought PII.

Kishan

Sammy76 · Senior Member

No complaints here. Had it all set up over email very quickly and efficiently. Really friendly to talk to and extemely helpful. Would definitely recommend.

lor · Guru

trafalgar, but it's done through AAT, so it's cheaper.

Donna CBK · Senior Member

I went with Insure2day as found Trafalgar dearer at the time - will certainly try Arlington next time though as that is very competitive.

Marky65 · Guru

Hi
I used Arlington last year and have no hesitation about renewing in a month or so.

Have had great help and advice from Stuart over the last year

Mark

ghis · Senior Member

Hi

I used Arlington, They were helpful and friendly and no problems so far

Sylvia · Veteran Member

I am thinking of using Arlington PII insurance as mine is due for renewal (at present with Trafalgar). Shaun has mentioned the importance of having 6-year run-off but I can't see anything about this on the Zurich policy wording (link from BKN website). The wording does say about claims "notified to us during the period of insurance", which doesn't suggest there is a run-off period. Am I missing something?

Sylvia

Susie Sue · Senior Member

Hi Sylvia,

On my policy schedule with Zurich (through Arlington) there is a retro-active date which says "commencement date of your business" Is this what you mean!?! (it's a bit technobabble for me!!)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sue,

no its the run off period.

for example. You do a job for a client year one.

everything is hunky dorey but then five years down the line HMRC investigate and fine the client for an error that was due to a serious omission on the part of the bookkeeper / accountant.

Client then sues you but the insurance that was active at the time lapsed four years ago.

That's where the run off period cuts in.

The run off period is the period within which claims in relation to the period that was actually covered by the policy will be honored by the insurance company.

Most professional bodies dictate a run off period of six years as in general that would be as far back as HMRC go. However, if HMRC find something amiss they can if they so wished go right the way back to the start of the company. (cost to return makes that unlikely in most cases unless they are trying to make a point and to do that they must have found something fundamentally amiss in the six years plus one.

my policy is in the home office so can't answer Sylvia at the moment. Was rather hoping someone with a copy to hand might step in otherwise it will be this evening before I can give an answer (sorry Sylvia).

all the best,

Shaun.

Sylvia · Veteran Member

Thanks Shaun, for the explanation that is what I thought it meant. Though the policy covers for all work undertaken since start of business, it would be nice to know that if I ever stopped trading I would have some cover. I think I will go with Arlington as they seem to have a more personal service than Trafalgar, though hopefully I will never need to put that to the test.

Sylvia

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Right, big important correction to my previous post which obviously didn't quite understand the term run off period.

Here is an article written by Stuart Dunn of Arlington professional risks to explain the term. I've copied and pasted the article here in its entirety. (many thanks for passing this accross Stuart).

RUN-OFF PROFESSIONAL INDEMNITY INSURANCE

About 12 years ago I received a telephone call from a very distressed lady saying that she had received a very officious letter from a firm of solicitors claiming that her sole practitioner husband who had passed away 3 months previously - had made an error on some work undertaken some 3 years prior to his retirement and that the solicitors client required £12,000 in restitution.

After visiting her we were able to take the problem out of the hands of the poor lady concerned and involve her late-husbands PI Insurers. They, in turn, instructed their own firm of lawyers to deal with the problem and which was eventually settled at damages of £7,000 approx plus lawyers etc costs of £4,500.

Both the damages and the costs were paid by the practitioners PI Insurance as he had the presence of mind to arrange Run-Off insurance at the time of his retirement.

Please bear in mind that it is mandatory under some regulatory bodies that Run-Off cover is maintained for at least 2 years after the cessation of practice, with a recommendation that the cover is maintained for a further 4 years (i.e. 6 years in total).

We would recommend that Run-Off should be maintained for 6 years as the Statute of Limitations under law is 6 years.

It is, perhaps, obvious for the necessity of Sole Practitioners to maintain this cover at the time of retirement, or sale of their practice but multi-partner firms, or even Limited Companies, should be aware of the principles involved.

Sole Practitioners are, of course, in an especially vulnerable situation because in the event of their death, without Run-Off cover being in place, their Estate will remain liable for any claims that could be made against them.

On a practical level practitioners should bear in mind that they can only arrange Run-Off cover with the Insurer who is insuring them at the time of their retirement; sale of the practice etc.

If you are insured with Arlington, cover can be arranged for a 6 year policy at a one-off premium.

If any Bookkeeper requires more details on the question of Run-Off cover then please phone Chris Green, or Stuart Dunn, of Arlington Professional Risks on: 01761-463667

So it's not at all what I thought. My impression was that the run off was built into the policy automatically but it appears that such is something that must be purchased at cessation of business.

I've just checked Arlington (Zurich) cover against Trafalgar, Hiscox and More th>n which are the other common choices and the worlding over run-off is similar with it being down to the practice to arrange the post cesstion additional insurance rather than such being included within the original policy.

Hope that this proves helpful,

kind regards,

Shaun.

YLB-HO · Guru

I would have told the Solicitors who wrote to the lady to take a running jump. You can't sue someone who is deceased. Any potential liability ceased with the Sole Practicitioners death.

Hal · Veteran Member

Not strictly true as you can in effect sue a deceased person with the claim being made against their estate.

As in the case referred to , if there was insurance in place then theb claim would would be referred to the insurers to deal.

Hal FFA FFTA

Sylvia · Veteran Member

Shaun,

Thank you for the explanation.

This site lists 6 years run-off on their The Book-keepers Network Professional Indemnity Insurance (PII) Scheme page, perhaps this need to be removed.

Sylvia

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers Sylvia,

I knew that I couldn't have just thought that up from nowhere. It does read as though it is automatically included so I'm going to have a chat with Stuart about changing the wording on that one.

I suppose that the advertisment is only an invitation to treat rather than an offer in itself so not legally binding where the policy wording is binding and that sets things out properly.

I'm not defending the way that the advertisment reads, just indicating the legal status of it (Mmm, sense a pending debate about the Boots case vs the Carbolic ball case there as to whether offer actually existed!).

Here's the current version.

-Exclusive low-premiums for BKN members

-Bespoke cover for smaller practices

-Complies with ICB, IAB, AAT, ACCA and ICAEW requirements

-Nil excess (dependent on your circumstances)

-Underwritten by Zurich Insurnace

-6-year run-off

-Shorter, simpler proposal documents

-Automatic renewal - complete your proposal once

I'll also mention the minor spelling mistakes when I contact Stuart.

Many thanks for finding that reference Sylvia. Take ten brownie points and a gold star for spotting where I had read that from (and like yourself understood it somewhat.differently to the reality).

kind regards,

Shaun.

Spamkebab · Expert

Got a link to that case Shaun?

Thanks

Neil.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Neil,

There are lots of links to these two famous cases :

Carbolic Smoke Ball Co. (1893)

Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots Cash Chemists (Southern) Ltd (1953)

If you are going to be studying F4 then they are important ones to get your head around.

I quoted those two cases but there are lots of others around offer / invitation to treat which is a veritable minefield of seeming contradiction but the cases are all different in some important aspect which makes total sense once you understand them.

That years after the exam I remember those two shows that they are a couple of the more important ones amongst the hundreds that you will learn.

Got to do the school run now but chat later,

All the best,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

And I'm back...

just dropped Stuart an email so hope that this discrepancy over the wording of the ad gets resolved imminently,

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. thanks again for pointing me to it Sylvia. I was begining to think that I must have just dreamed my line of thinking over this up.

Sylvia · Veteran Member

Your welcome, Shaun. After all the help you have given me and the confidence I am glad to be of assistance.

Sylvia

Rob-f58049 · Senior Member

@Shamus: "something that must be purchased at cessation of business"

Um... sorry, this isn't clear to me - how can someone who has just died (and hence their business has now ceased) purchase run-off insurance at that point? Surely it only works in that situation if it is purchased in advance, i.e. as part of purchasing the PII in the first place? Or is whoever manages the deceased's estate able to do it?

-- Edited by Rob-f58049 on Wednesday 7th of November 2012 02:08:32 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Rob,

I was talking about cessation of business in the normal course of affairs, i.e. retirement rather than death.

In the case of death I think that Hal makes a good point in the "Sue who?" scenario.

The wording in the Arlington ad (link at top of page) has now been amended as previously it did read as though the run off was part of what was being purchased in the first place.

kind regards,

Shaun.

JulieS · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
I have,

the insurance is actually through Zurich with a six year tail off so quality assurance.

Stuart Dunns a great guy. Spoke to him the other day and he wasn't trying to push a sale, just wanted to know if I was a happy chappy with the product.

Very professional service fronting a sound product. No complaints at all from me... In fact, don't think that I've seen a bad word said against them on the site

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. I have no link to Arlington other than having my PII through them.

Hi Shaun,

Are you still with Arlington? I am looking for getting PII for my Ltd Co and I wanted to use them.

Thanks

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Julie,

yes, think I've been with them for three years now and they have given me no reason to want to change.

I've never made a claim so cannot comment on that side of things but from just everything running like clockwork its so far so good.

HTH,

Shaun.

bk · Senior Member

This is my second year with Arlington and I have no complaints. Very efficient and helpful. Price is the cheapest I found as a member of the site.

Debbie

JulieS · Senior Member

Thank you Shaun!