Offices to rent what do people pay - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Amanda · Expert

Offices to rent what do people pay

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Amanda,

We always seem to be going through similar things at the same time. I have been looking at offices for a wee while now, but keep being put off by all the 'extras'. Once you add it up something which seemed reasonable suddenly becomes expensive.

I stumbled across a business centre recently which really interested me for a number of reasons. It's aimed at small businesses when they hit the growing stage and need proper office space, they then can move on from there into their own office. Almost like a between baby step to proper freedom. This got me thinking that it would be cheap office space, and a flow of potential clients. The costs are £200 per month which includes a furnished office, heat, light, broadband, use of meeting rooms, a receptionist, use of printers and photocopiers, kitchen etc.

Seemed a really great deal, I'm just scared. Anyway, it may be worth contacting your local council or business link to find out if there are similar in your area.

Kris

Amanda · Expert

HI Kris,

Theres a BAsepoint not too far from me and it would cost me £350/month + phone line, but trying to source something on the doorstep!

£200 sounds very good how big is it?

HAve you outgrown your office in the garden?

MarkS · Expert

Like Kris i have my office in a business centre

I share the office with 3 other people. But as i also work full time i tend just to go in at the weekend so havent yet seen the others who are in the same office as me.

I pay £180 per month.

For this get table, chair, lockable pedestal, broadband, heat and light and few other things which cant remember of the top of my head.

I have put in my own computer, printer, lockable filing cabinet and lockable cupboard.

It is ideal for what i need at the moment as wasnt practical working from home with 3 young children and is reasonable to justify just over £2k rent at the moment based on fee income.

Regards

MarkS

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Not really, and thats one of the problems. I could happily remain here, but being so close to the house I still find it hard to get things done. Especially now when the kids are playing outside (well, on the odd nice day) and then I'd rather just be sitting on my decking watching the world go by.

But while I have this office, I find it hard to justify moving on. And if I don't move I can't take on a member of staff so stay pretty small. I feel it's one of those catch 22 moments.

The offices I looked at are not massive, but big enough for 2 people. I'll probably decide to stay put again.

Good luck finding somewhere

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

I currently pay £220 per month but I'm moving to larger offices in the same building on the weekend of the 13th/14th of July for £300 per month (negotiated down from £350 so quite happy).

The larger office is actually down to mitigating the risk of ending up with noisy neighbours if I don't take it and it also gives me the opportunity for three members of staff rather than expansion capacity for one which I have at the moment.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Oh yes, and as for how big your office should be.

From experience I would say large enough to accomodate twice the maximum number of vistitors that you think will ever be in it and with sufficient space to comfortably accomodate one more worker than you currently employ without that worker sitting where you need to be talking to clients.

And also large enough to accomodate a desk for you big enough to sort a months worth of receipts into date sequence without stacking them. 3ft by 5ft with a side table seems to be the best size for that sort of task.

Even though we've got a small kitchen I also have a small desk in the office just for my coffee maker as a major weakness I have is that my coffee mug at work never has chance to get cold and I don't like to take breaks to keep refilling it.

ADAS · Guru

I pay £200 pcm for an office in an old school. It includes utilities but not broadband / phone. It's big enough for two desks, which is all I need at the moment. It's about 5 minutes outside Liverpool city centre which is great for me because my biggest clients are within 10 minutes travel.

Amanda · Expert

Shaun does that include rates and utility bills etc?

I'm not a coffee person, so just need a kettle and a tea bag!

Thats a good price Tony.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

it's fully inclusive but even if it wasn't you should be able to get a couple of years free non domestic rates when you move to premises so long as you don't have more than one office.

I really like these offices as it's an old three storey pre victorian building (Built using bits of French ships that we trashed in the Napoleonic wars) and it really loks the part for a traditional accounting practice... I've even got an old iron fireplace in my office.

The view from the window is across a large duck pond with an island in the middle of it full of mature tree's.

All in all a fantastic working environment which clients really like as well.

The intention was to move out of my home office into that one but it seems that I've now just ended up with two offices although I no longer invite clients to my home.... Actually, that should read three offices as I moved from the little bedroom in the house to the largest bedroom to offices but I seem to leave fully functioning offices in my wake.

Now, as backup procedures go that pretty much squishes just backing up one's recent files doesn't it! I archive whole offices. lol

Amanda · Expert

I am looking to share a couple of offices with someone else that I know that runs a small business, there are a couple going locally that are let as a pair together so it would be perfect for us. How would we apply for non domestic rates discounted/free?

These offices are above something that is already let and the rates currently are spilt between the businesses and invoiced separately by the council. I have read somewhere that you can get small businesses relief on rates is that true?

I know what you mean about inviting people in to your house, not all my clients have been in my office as its the spare bedroom and whilst its not a bad size and can confortably accommodate a client sitting next to me at my desk, I just don't think I would want to invite them all upstairs!

I think I will be taking the plunge very shortly! Although expansion wasn't really on the cards just yet.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

You've started me really looking at this again Amanda. I now have 4 properties to visit next week. The average size is about 200 sq ft (which means nothing to me until I see them), and about £200-£300 per month. 2 of these properties have a suite of 2 smaller offices which might work well if I can find someone to share with.

Let us know how you get on too. I have found rightmove.co.uk and showcase.co.uk to be good for finding properties and prices.

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Kris,

I'm moving from around 150 sq ft which was more than big enough for myself, huge desk, smaller desk, three large four drawer metal filing cabinets, a few chairs and a five foot whiteboard to 250 sq feet which is more than big enough for everything that I've already got plus three more desks.

You will find that the layout of the office matters as much as the space as I went to see one larger office but because it was L shaped it just felt cramped even though on paper it was larger.

I found that you very much have to go and stand in the room without the sales bod and just try and imagine yourself in it.

Sure that you'll reject some, as I did, just because they "Don't feel right" but have no real reasoning behind the decision.

When the right opportunity arises I think that you just know that it feels as though you should be in that office.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

not sure how the relief will work when you have two businesses in the same premises? I think that you need to confirm that with the local council first a you may find it beneficial to have seperate agreements for the seperate rooms and actually treat them as totally seperate offices.

Looking at my building we've got 8 offices, each being a room with a seperate entrance onto the landings and each office is rated seperately by the council and treated and a completely seperate unit from the whole.

Currently I'm nine months into my two year rates relief.

Amanda · Expert

These ones are approx 320 square ft altogether and use of kitchen and toilet. It was one of my clients that told me about them she looked at them, but wasn't suitable for her. I rang up after some more last week again local but the rent was too high. Will be number crunching this weekend and looking at the startup costs for phone etc. Will have to get a couple of desks and chairs etc, but got plenty of storage so thats no problem.

Will let you know what happens.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

That sounds a really good size setup.

When number crunching don't forget to factor in the increased takeup from those business owners who will only consider dealing with practices with substance.

p.s. Ebay is excellent for furniture but you also need to factor in van rental.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Have a look at xln telecom for business lines and broadband. They are much cheaper that the alternatives I've found.

Kris

Mad Liz · Senior Member

I pay £400 per month for my office in St Albans which includes utilities. It's on a busy main street and that's probably worth £100 of advertising per month at least. It's an odd shape, sort of triangular but it's big enough for three of us to work here and we have our own loo! There is also a facility for parking which is very important around here.

I would say try to make sure that you get a good landlord. They're worth their weight in gold. Mine is a diamond and was very supportive in my first year in the office when making the rent was a struggle each month. Some months he didn't get any, but he never mentioned it because he knew he'd get it back the next month. He also keeps a maintenance staff on hand and if anything needs fixing it's usually done within 48 hours at most. I mentioned that our radiator was a bit temperamental and within 2 days it had been fully replaced.

The only problem I have is that with the amount and type of clients I have there is a LOT of paperwork. However, I also have an offsite storage area located close to my home (which costs about £20 per month) so that sorts that out.

Amanda · Expert

Mine will be similar rent to you Liz but split between 2 of us, as sharing with a friend. There is plenty of storage there, as its a spare room next to the 2 offices which comes as part of the package. Again prime location not high street though, as those prices near me were 3 times the price which was too expensive. Plenty of free parking. My ultility bills are extra but for near where I live its a good price, so will probably go for it.
Looks like exciting times ahead of me.

@ Kris, I've not heard of xln telecom, I will have a look on the net, I am not a techy person so not into telephones, I just about manage to use a blackberry!

What about faxes?? I have one at home which I use inparticular for 1 client and its linked to my home line which isn't a problem, but we were thinking of getting a fax jointly? Do you go throught the PC or have a separate one?

Lastly one more thing, Photocopiers, do people rent them, I am assuming so? I have a good printer at home which does everything, but isn't man enough for alot of office work, so my friend and I were thinking of going halves on the photocopier. Any suggestions please, as I am totally blind on this one. Its been a while since I worked actually in an office, so I have lost touch with the office equipment.

Many thanks eveyone for all your help.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Amanda,

xln telecom just offer the same as BT, but at a lower price. If it was me I'd have xln televom handling a landline and broadband then use voipfone for my telephone lines internally. This makes it easier to transport your number if you move. If you have a business (landline) number currently you can port, or transfer this to voipfone normally.

I think the last time I used a fax was about 8 years ago (except in the police where it is so backwards everything must be faxed) so I don't know much about whats still good. If you don't use it much have a look at voipfone (I know, always shouting about them) they offer a fax number for £2 per month and you can receive unlimited faxes which they will send to a separate email address. They charge 10p per page to send them, for this you just email your fax number. They certainly look cheaper than efax or myfax who charge a higher monthly subscription but bundle your sent pages.

Regarding the photocopier hire or buy depends on a number of things, not least the usage. If you don't do many copies try something like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-MFD6050-Multi-functional-Printer-Scanner/dp/B003442RZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341049286&sr=8-1. Hiring a photocopier is much like a car, you'll get a number of copies free, and charged for each extra copy. You should be able to get one that will show who made the copies so that you and your friend can pay you'r share. I have found these as low as £25 per month with free toner and maintenance. This may give you an idea of costs even if you don't use this company: http://www.absdigital.co.uk/photocopiers_hire.htm

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

on the photocopier front I go for HP combination printer / fax / scanner / copier.

At the higher end they are quite fast although not up to the big Xerox boxes they do a sound job of colour copying and your not losing two lots of office space on two machines where one will suffice.

I've tried other printer brands but keep coming back to HP... Although I do use a syringe to refill the cartridges which are ridiculously expensive for the number of sheets that they print.

HTH,

Shaun.

Amanda · Expert

HI Shaun,
I've got one of them already at home but its not going to be good enough for the other business, as the other business will do alot of printing, which I will be involved in anyway. I tihnk I will have to look at renting a photocopier to be honest.

Kris - the efax may be a good idea for me as that will save paying for a 2nd line.
Just looked at the photocopier website and they are not far from me so will give them a call.

thanks

Wella · Expert

Shamus wrote:
......
I've tried other printer brands but keep coming back to HP... Although I do use a syringe to refill the cartridges which are ridiculously expensive for the number of sheets that they print.

HTH,

Shaun.

Stopped using HP as my main printer because of the running costs.

I now use a Lexmark Platinum Pro905, which you can get OE black refills at around £3.50 (if you shop around). It is a two tray duplex printer, duplex copier/ scanner, and fax.

The two tray systems is handy, as I usually have the top tray filled with 80gsm paper set to print double sided for draft papers, and the bottom tray filled with 100gsm quality paper, for single sided reports, and bound final accounts etc.

The scanner and copier function can handle quite a volume of paper with the standard ADF. I do tend to copy to pdf, rather than use the copy function

It's has become a bit like Sage vs VT for me, with the Lexmark beating HP all round.

Bill

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

That looks good Bill. I currently run a dell 1900n laser printer with ADF for scanning and a canox mp560 for colour. I am thinking about merging the two into one and your suggestion looks like it could be the one for me, especially with ink at that price.

Thanks

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

On the printing costs side you are only supposed to be able to refill the cartridges six times... Yer right... I'm at more than three times that. Each times the sponge inside takes just that little bit less ink but still not looking at having to buy a new cartridge anytime soon and the ink only cost £5 for three bottles... Never actually used the cleaner so seem to be building up a stockpile of the stuff.

I have tried other makes but there have been dependability issues (Much to my boys ammusement my Canon actually really did go out of an open back window!).

With Lexmark printers I remember that a few years ago it was actually cheaper to buy their smaller printers that came with print cartridges than to actually buy the print cartridges seperately so people were actually scrapping perfectly good printers when the cartridges wore out... Great one for sales figures. lol.

I do agree that HP can be expensive but in this instance I can reduce the costs and seriously rate the dependability... That said I do fancy giving a Kyocera laser printer a chance next.

Wella · Expert

kjmcculloch83 wrote:
That looks good Bill. I currently run a dell 1900n laser printer with ADF for scanning and a canox mp560 for colour. I am thinking about merging the two into one and your suggestion looks like it could be the one for me, especially with ink at that price.

Thanks

Kris

I really like mine.

Even one colour cartridge (3 seperate colours) aren't as expensive as a comparable HP black cartridge.

Just need to make sure you get the 105xl black cartridge, as the standard one is photo quality black (not that i noticed the difference), and more expensive