I recently passed my HNC in Accounts and when I contacted the ICB to find out what effect it would have on my membership I couldn't beleive it when they told me I could mover to MICB but only if I paid some £124.50 over my membership fees. My surprise is that this seems to be the same as the exam fees. They have no marker to pay, no venue hire, no papers to provide, so why the same as the exam fee? Seemed strange to me, perhaps the ICB are just after cash rather than raising the game with bookkeeper.
So annoyed with them right now.
Actually, so annoyed I forgot the question, has anyone else made this move? I imagine the services are similar, or am I better kicking them both to the kerb and paying HMRC for my MLR and forget professional bodies who seem more concerned with cash than creating better bookkeepers?
Kris
-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Thursday 13th of September 2012 05:06:04 PM
The man hours involved with exemptions is much greater than with examinations. Don't forget you are sharing the writing/moderation/centre fees with 1,000's of others.
With exemptions someone has to manually look into the syllabuses, structure, units and how each is examined, pass marks, compulsory units etc.
Most of which changes every year and the old information is taken off websites and so direct contact has to be made with the awarding body (quite often that is easier said than done). Then cross reference against the ICB's own.
It is so much more simpler for the ICB to handle examinations.
this is a pretty standard approach that I think that the ICB have adopted from the ACCA where exemptions come in the form of a guaranteed pass.
someone will have looked at all of the other syllabuses anyway in setting up the exemptions database so in this instance I understand why James puts it the way that he does but really looking at exeemptions to make a decision has already been done.
However, as I say, this is a standard way of ensuring that professional bodies don't miss out on fee's which is not a complaint as they need to make money in order to keep going and if they gave away memberships they wouldn't be a business for very long.
Right, that said lets look at the other side of this question and you need to ask yourself why you are looking at moving more or less to the same with a different coat of paint.
You are a successful practice, you now have employee(s?), why are you looking at wading in the shallow end of the pool?
Have you thought about approaching the IFA and seeing what exemptions that they are willing to give for your HND? (combined with your nomination for most innovative practice on here and the fact that you are running a successful practice already).
The costs involved in becoming an IFA accountant are higher than a swap over to the IAB and they charge seperately for MLR (although less than HMRC) but at Dip FA you can get a practicing licence. You need an accountant as a sponsor but it's a proper accounting quaalification and you could go on to take their exams in order to become an AFA.
I know, lot's to consider and it means swimming with the sharks but I thought that I would throw the idea of moving from bookkeeping to accountancy out there for you to consider as my feel is that you have pretty much already done that in all but name anyway.
just a thinking outside the box suggestion matey,
all the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thats a great idea. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what i can find out.
I wouldn't mind paying for exemptions, but when I got the email today my first thoguth was "that can't be right" but clearly it was. To be honest there is really no benefit to me to pay that. I suppose now I've calmed down it's just like any professional body, cross our palm with silver and keep crossing it. We admit you're qualified and able now pay us and we'll let you do it.
Another good thing about going IFA from a lifelong learning perspective is that it's a route to FTA for a dedicated Tax qualification as well. That's a route that I'm going to be going down for CPD after I've completed ACCA... God, I'm goona need wider business cards for all these letters!
... How the heck do we ever find any time to work with all this learning to do!
talk later, all the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I do my MLR through HMRC, as I am PQ AAT, and my bookkeeping exams are OCR from about 9 years ago, as thats the only exams my college did. I had manual 1 and 2 and computerised 1 and 2, which they then gave me a diploma certificate for having both. No one has ever asked me for any of my qualifications, except for one accountant who didn't know me from adam, but 2 of my clients had chosen him as they new him socially.
To be honest Shaun i have been doubting my chosen path lately, but the ACCA news is greatly received although i am in 2 minds now as to whether to hang fire, choosing my next step. Maybe the other governing bodies will follow ACCA's example?
I'm also interested in the IFA route too, never really considered it before you mentioned it again, although i did know of it.
The trouble with choosing my next qualification is there are so many things to consider, i want to work in industry (i have very little interest in working in practice although individual accounts do fascinate me) and then there is the current climate to consider and what this means to the jobs advertised and what they are looking for.
At the moment i am considering having a few months off study after Xmas just to weigh things up before jumping into studying for a qualification i may later regret. Of course any chartered qualification would be extremely beneficial but do i need to go that far just yet? experience is probably the most important thing i should work on for the next year or so before trying to move forward with quals, yet in 12 month i could have 2 or 3 exams under my belt and this may help to gain me the experience i need.
I love the catch 22.
Regulation 8, Shaun, don't hold yer breath lol.
Neil.
P.S. My question "If ACCA can do it, why not others?" still stands.
-- Edited by Spamkebab on Friday 14th of September 2012 09:40:10 AM
I agree that there is a cost attached to this, James. And i could agree with you further if it was not for the way ICB charge. For example, an HNC has 12 credits. One of those credits was preparing final accounts - computerised. So thats just less than 9% of the course. The fee split is that the computerised level 3 costs double the manual. Are you saying that it takes double the time to check 1 credit as it does to check the other 11 all toghether?
Or are ICB moving away from hourly rates towards Bobs value pricing?
I should have said ICB charge about £40 for the exemption for the level 3 manual and about £80 for the level 3 computerised.
Kris
-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Friday 14th of September 2012 12:06:55 PM
Apparently ACCA no longer charge AAT level 4 qualified students for exemptions from the core modules. I can understand governing bodies charging an admin fee for checking that the applicant has the necessary qualifications to gain the offered exemptions but to charge full price for each exam exemption does seem unfair.
Cheers for that news Neal. That's an excellent change in the right direction by the ACCA... Wonder if they fancy rethinking regulation 8 whilst they're in a mood for improvement.
I can fully see the reasoning behind that as ACCA want the MAATs as do the ICAEW and CIMA and IFA and AIA.
Competition for something is always going to end up advantageous for those who already possess it. Bet it makes you feel even better about the route you took doesn't it matey.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
someone will have looked at all of the other syllabuses anyway in setting up the exemptions database so in this instance I understand why James puts it the way that he does but really looking at exeemptions to make a decision has already been done.
Hi
That is true for common exemptions, like AAT where we get a lot of people who qualify with them and then join ICB in membership.
However, Kris' HNC from that year was not in the database, so in this case the work had to be done specifically for Kris as he was the first, and probably last, person to ask for exemptions from it.
I did think the other bodies do the same, when the ICB was set up it basically took ideas on procedure from the other bodies. The only difference was its stance on the bookkeeping industry.
I think that my response above was sort of correct then about ICB using the same as bodies such as ACCA (or apparently ACCA at the time as I hadn't realised that things had moved forwards in the last year until Neil pointed it out this morning (thanks again for the info Neil)).
Just a clarify though as the first and second parts of your answer could be read differently (sorry to be pedantic). Your reply reads that if it had been a common transfer such as AAT then the ICB would not have charged the £124? Or is the last line the more relevant that the ICB use the guaranteed pass system of exemptions regardless of the qualification that one is coming from such as the ACCA used to? Just want to clarify that one in case anyone else asks on the site.
Thanks in advance for clarifying the statement James,
Many thanks,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Can't remember exactly but I don't think I was charged for exemptions when I joined IAB just the annual membership fee as a member and the compliance. I did have to wait though as members are "vetted" at meetings not sure of the frequency.
It is not for me to discuss the individual costs of the ICB (you wont find any other body on here going into as much detail as me ).
But it is a big operation, if the ICB receive 100 application requests, it will most likely involve 50 different awarding bodies, spanning different syllabuses from different years. More than likely it will be mixed bodies per application as well (so Level 1 City and Guilds 2006 (6 out of 8 units), Level 2 Pitmans 2008 (8 out of 12 units), Uni Certificate (unknown units) 2010 etc.).
The above is a random made up example, I don't work in the qualifications department and so do not know units of bodies etc, it is just what I see/hear in the office.
Hi Sheila, that certainly seemed to be the case when i spoke to IAB. I am also looking at AAT. Though it may need to wait until next year as. Just renewed my practice licence last month.
James, I'm certainly not asking you to defend the ICB pricing policy.
It might be worth talking to them again to get confirmation as I was only charged one exam exemption fee rather than a fee for each exempted exam in order to join as a Dip FA via the ACCA to IFA scheme. (plus of course there was lots of other payments amounting in total to a few hundred pounds to obtain a practicing certificate and MLR cover).
The one payment that did seem a little strange with the IFA was the initial pre application up front payment in order for them to consider you before you put your proper application forms and payments in.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
That's what I was told when I initially asked, although I didn't get much further so it could be that it wasn't quite correct (unfortunately we could only get hold of a summary syllabus for my ACIB/BSc rather than full details so the IFA couldn't grant me the exemptions I was hoping for based on that, so I'm sitting the exams. Which is fine and good revision apart from the law...I struggled to learn all the cases first time around and it's no easier now, 15 years later. The concepts I know but remembering which case was which is a different matter entirely!).
).
