I would use calls as a split for telephone, with the same percentage for line rental. For internet usage time would be a good guide, very much in the same way we deal with use of home as business.
Hi Everyone - I'm off sick at the moment (!) so thought I would join in
The HMRC went through a phase of disallowing Line rental on "duality of purpose" grounds, but personally I have always claimed it on the same basis percentage as the calls. At the end of the day if the costs are "reasonable" it is difficult for HMRC to argue otherwise. Personally I got round this by putting a second line in, and clients don't get the personal line number so I don't have to speak to them out of normal hours.
Now BT does not have a monopoly it easier to get a business line without the higher business line costs.
Internet use - again if your client's personal internet use is incidental to his business use I would claim a;ll of it - but if not again, just come up with a "reasonable" percentage.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 12th of October 2012 04:41:44 PM
where its a shared line it's a sunk cost in that the line would have been there anyway so could not be deemed wholly, necessarily and exclusively for the purpose of the business.
The EIM for this one is 32940.
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. same rules for utility standing charges and internet access if shared between business and personal.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Well, nobody can accuse HMRC of joined up thinking can they!
I had similar fun over a travel expenses issue related to the two year rule.
look in the manual it said one thing, look at the examples it was completely different.
I actually ended up with the wishy washy answer "that's not what we meant".
Makes no never mind to me. Look, black and white. working on two opposite sides of London is not the same as different jobs in the square mile. With one the two year clock is reset with the later all companies within the square mile are regarded for travel purposes as the same employer.
Basically HMRC wanted to extend that to the entirety of a city rather than a specific area such as the square mile in London or Jewelry quarter in Brum.
Sometimes I get the impression that they just apply the rules as they would like them to read rather than as they actually exist.
So. back to the question. Which of the two current, completely conflicting rules is enforcable?
Quick, to the Tim and Bill bat sign.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I was just going to ask for the reference (to give myself head scratching time) but Kris beat me to it. I'll have a read but if things were sensible the business manual would apply over the employment one. I've got eggs boiling so if I'm over half an hour call the fire brigade.
Thanks guys for returning to this thread and your very interesting discussions.
Your discussions are helping me sift through HMRCs site and hopefully better understand their guidance as Im trying to learn the tax side of things.
I searched HMRC for both EIM32940 and BIM47825.
At first I couldnt understand what the difference was between an EIM and a BIM, thinking maybe there was a typo but no there wasnt. From reading the docs in the search results Ive come to the conclusion that EIMs are for Employees and BIMs are for Sole Traders, am I right?
If I am right then I understand Kris to have given me the correct advice for my scenario. There does appear to be different rules depending whether youre employed or a Sole Trader/Partnership.
What suggestions would you have in navigating & understanding HMRC's site without feeling you're going in confused circles?
I think that going around in confused circles is how you know that you are on the HMRC website.
Another clue is finding that the page goes into great detail relating to every possible scenario no matter how wild and whacky except the one that you are interested in which at best will have a one line acknowledgement that they know about it.
On the while EIM / BIM front it becomes a lot less black and white when one is thinking from the perspective of a limited company where the director/owner is an employee.
worth noting with the HMRC site is that if ever you find anything to back you up save it away as they do have a habit of regularly correcting things which deletes your evidence.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
In dealing with HMRC some years ago they advised that my client could not claim the line rental in his home. (he worked from home) on the basis that the line rental was not wholly for business purpose.
The line would be needed for his pesonal calls.
His busness calls could be claimed as they were wholly for his business.
