Posting out letters, 1st or 2nd class post? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Amanda · Expert

Posting out letters, 1st or 2nd class post?

MarkS · Expert

Amanda

I recently have been doing some marketing letters which i did myself but the cost when you work it out is quite high (rough figures below)

Large letter stamp 69p

A4 envelope 10p

headed paper 10p

printing 1p

Sticky label 10p

flyer 2p

Labour 30p

Total £1.32

Best to use someone like docmail who can do all the above for about 49p. (thats what I am going to do in future)

Regards

Mark

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Headed paper is one of those that seems too expensive for what it is.

I knocked up my design in Word, printed it then photocopied it (#1) and if you use good quality paper you really can't tell the difference between that and the properly printed stuff.

When I need to send out headed paper I just slip those into the feeder.

On the print quality side there does seem to be huge variances with some models. Colour laser printers are best but my budget only goes to inkjet. Of my two the old 5650 is infinitely better than the newer 4600 which was supposed to be the HP replacement for the 56 series printers.

Within the next month or so I'm thinking of either moving to an 8600 pro or actually investing in a proper laser printer (either the M1212NF or M175NW).

For postage doesn't Kris use an alternative service to Royal mail for his mail shots? Might be worth having words about that as he could save you a bit.

Personally I tend to hit small industrial estates etc and have a walk around and if I get to chat with the business owners that a bonus. I leave my postcard / business card with them. If I do meet I don't give them any hard sell and just leave the card. As we've chatted about before I then follow up over time with additional postcards but those are posted on Sunday afternoons or late evenings when nobody is around... Still too early to tell how successful that approach actually is. Think that it will need a couple of years before I can make a call on that as to whether it works but it certainly feels as though I am doing more than simply posting cards off which (rightly or wrongly) I feel puts me ahead of others who may only end up being treated as spam.

kind regards,

Shaun.

#1 don't ask me why but photocopying on my two HP printers are both faster than printing (say) 20 copies from the PC directly.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I think Docmail might have been the one that Kris mentioned as well. Don't they also actually to the whole service within the price including printing and envelope stuffing, not just the delivery part?

MarkS · Expert

Docmail can print, envelope and post your mail shot on your own headed paper template.

Mark

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

You're right Shaun, I used to rave about them, but found better. imail is a service run by UKMail and is much easier to use. For a colour one side letter it's a penny cheaper than cfhdocmail. It also has a printer driver that you install on your pc, so to send a letter is as simple as pressing the print button and they do everything else.

Amanda, I had my headed paper professionally printed and I think it worked very well. It presented a better image than if I had printed it myself, however since finding these services above I've hardly used it. What I did was get my printer to put the design on a word template so I could type my letter on it and imail can print it (they have great printers so it still looks good) and it presents a great image.

Kris

Amanda · Expert

Thanks Shaun and Mark for the info.

Mark - I have been using just a single sheet for my letter, short and punchy and then folding it up and putting it into small envelopes with first class stamps. Are you doing like a marketing pack, sending it out in A4 envelopes? Do you find it is working ok?

Shaun - I have just tried photocopying my headed paper on my printer and still not great. Would it be better if it was done on a photocopier instead?

cheers,

MarkS · Expert

Amanda

To date have been doing a letter on headed paper and enclosing my flyer. But as said going forward probably will use docmail to do the letter and wont include flyer.

My target is to get enquiries from 1% of letters sent. I am going to do about 200 letter a month so looking to get 2 enquiries directly from it. So far I have done 2 month run myself and have got 3 direct enquiries and 1 indirect. Signed up all 4 as clients with fees of £4.5k in total so is on target with expectations.

Hope to generate about 20 clients from this in the next year or so. Will cost about £1200 to do but expect to generate fees of about £20k-£25k from this. So will be worth it in long term.

Regards

MarkS

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

All depends on the printer / Copier Amanda. As I say, my 5650 is great but the 4600 which should be the same (it was the HP replacement for the 56 series) I could not use for sending information to clients.

Shame that one cannot just go into PC world and try out all of the models until you find a good one as I've noticed with HP that price is no reflection on print quality.

On the bright side it sounds as though Kris has the perfect solution for your dilema plus another good alternative there from Mark.

Cheaper, faster and better quality. Sounds like a win / win there to me.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Amanda · Expert

Sorry Kris, our post crossed!

So Kris, is there a minimum quantity you have to do? Also do you provide them with the data base to send it too?

I haven't looked into this but I may well have to. I have got my logo on various different formats, so I have got headed paper done with it from my PC.

I used one of those freelogo services, its not really free, it cost me £29, and I had the files within a minute! They are in different formats and looks really good. Nice and simple but hopefully looks good. I uploaded my logo to vista print yesterday and did some new business cards.

Thanks Mark and Kris, will look into those both. What do they charge per letter?

Amanda · Expert

@Kris-
I've just had a very quick look, so do you type you letter up first if all with the address where you want it to go (I have standard letters anyway), then send it to imail and they then print it and post it off for you? Do they invoice you monthly or weekly or per item? I really do need to move forward with technology!!!! I have a stack of first class stamps in my drawer, maybe I should be order some xmas cards from vistarpint or printing.com and send them out with my stamps!! (in December of course, its too early now)!

cheers everyone

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Amanda wrote:
in December of course, its too early now

Not with my recent experiences of the Royal Mail!

Elaine R · Senior Member

Hi Amanda,

I would probably send them out first class just to save a bit of money. I would use letter head but your own rather than expensive paper should do.

You have just spurred me on to do a marketing letter as I still have no clients but have made steady progress and my first one is imminent.

I want to build my business up steadily between now and next year. I don't expect a mad rush seen as it is so close to the end of the year.

Good luck to everyone who is sending out letters and hoping to gain new customers.

Elaine

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

HI Amanda,

You type the letter, or do a mail merge as if you were printing it on your own printer. When you press print and choose imail as your printer you are shown a preview with a green box. You just need to check that your delivery address appears here as they use window envelopes. Once you set this up once you'll be fine. Then just choose whether you want it delivered next day, or 2 days. The cut off for next day is 3pm and 2 days I think is 6pm.

You preload your account with money and draw from that with each letter you send. They'll give you a free £1 credit to try it first though.

Kris

Amanda · Expert

HI Kris,

Thanks for that, I rang them late this afternoon and the chap is going ot email me some stuff and also send me some sample postcards. I'm going to have a go at this as its got to be easier and cheaper than doing it all yourself. What success rate have you had from it? And how long have you been using them for?
Do you pay for it to be in colour or just black and white, as I notice they charge more for colour.

thanks,

Amanda · Expert

Hi Kris,

Well I have had a go at imail tonight, I have sent my first letter, what I didn't realise is I can save it on there website and then press the print button and it goes direct to them. At first I actually typed the address on there and then realised that I had to leave it blank and then fill it on afterwards! It will save me time and money! How do you upload some money onto it, as he said today its like pay as you go phone, top up the account and away you go!

I logged in but couldn't find where to upload any money on it? Am I missing something?

Many thanks for this one its great!

Edit:- he told me today that they are adding xmas cards to the package in the next week or 2.

-- Edited by Amanda on Wednesday 7th of November 2012 10:33:04 PM

HendyPhilhendy · Guru

To be honest I rarely post anything. I send information, quotes etc. by email

I generally send most things out 2nd class unless it is urgent.

Amanda · Expert

Well got my sample letter back today form UK mail as above, was very pleased with it and will definately be using them in the future. Kris I've worked out how to put money on the account, so ignore my posting above. Out of interest Kris, have you used their Data for finding new clients? I spoke to a chap today about it and he said the minimum amount I had to spend on the date was £300. I thought that was alot and haven't got that in the budget so won't be doing it now. Just curious if you have tried it or not and if so does it work?

Many thanks,

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Amanda,

It's really worth downloading the printer driver as it allows you to print letter directly from word or any other program without the need to save and upload it.

I've not tried the data service, to be honest they tend not to hit the mark with my type of client. I often spend the evening going a virtual drive on google maps down local streets and gathering details, or browse google places. Sad, but it's much better for my target market.

Kris

Amanda · Expert

Kris,

Thanks for that, I must admit £300 is way off my budget, it was a smooth slippery sales man I was talking to!

How do you download the printer driver? Where do I find that on the website?

I normally scroll through google looking for business, we must be a bunch of sad muppets spending our evenings doing that!

Cheers

Amanda · Expert

Kris,

I have found the printer driver, just installed it and now its in my printers list? Is that correct, so when I do a word doc, instead on me printing it at home I choose 'imail print' is that correct and then that will automatically print to their system is that how it works.

Wow I like this bit of technology, I'm finally moving with the times!!!! (My son will be impressed)!

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

https://www.imail.co.uk/imail/imail_print.aspx

Having said all this yesterday about their print client, cfhdocmail have just launched one today too. The services would now seem to be very similar.

Kris

Amanda · Expert

Have you had much success from this type of marketing? I'm going to have a go next week at doing a batch of letters. Hopefully I will be able to get more out using this quicker method. Oh well the first class stamps will just have to stay in my draw! Can't believe its so much cheaper than doing it yourself.

cheers,

NA_AA · Guru

amanda, do you send the letters to your own mailing list? and do you already have to have a mail merge prepared before uploading?

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Amanda wrote:

Have you had much success from this type of marketing? I'm going to have a go next week at doing a batch of letters. Hopefully I will be able to get more out using this quicker method. Oh well the first class stamps will just have to stay in my draw! Can't believe its so much cheaper than doing it yourself.

cheers,

If I'm honest, success with letters has been pretty limited. Having said that it can be difficult to find out from people where they first saw you. It may be that you send a letter, and they visit your website, then later end up buying a service. I had this previously where someone got a letter but weren't really interested in buying. Later they got a quote from my website and again I never heard any more. Then a year later they came back and went on to become a client.

Kris

Amanda · Expert

Hi Kris,

Do you use the colour version of the letter and send on 2 day? This is the cheapest colour option, which is what I have been doing, or do you go for colour 1 day option which is more expensive? Or do you do black and white print? I think my logo looks better in colour.

Do you have a set number you are trying to send out per month? I haven't had a set number up until now as I was printing and then going to the post box which took up time. Maybe I may well set myself a target and see what happens.

Sometimes it does take a while for clients to realise that they actually need their books doing and their tax sorting out.
I guess they don't think its a priority!

Thanks

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

I generally send colour letters, because of the letterhead, but it also lets you add other colour elements too. I send about 10 a week, or I did until recently as I'm a bit busy right now. This is a reasonable number to follow up.

MarkS · Expert

I send about 200 prospective letters per month that costs about £100 per month.

I would be looking to get a couple of clients per month from this.

Have done 2 monthly runs so far and got 4 clients directly and 1 client indirectly so on target with my projections.

Dont hope for getting a return of something like 10% of letters sent as that wont happen.

Regards

Mark

Amanda · Expert

HI Mark,

Do you actually find time to follow up the letters with a phone call or a 2nd letter? In the past I have followed up some with a phone call but to be honest it got me no where, some weren't in, so left messages, some just didn't bother answering at all (their mobile). I wondered if I should have a follow up letter to send out in say a couple of weeks time? Or a follow up postcard perhaps?

The clients that you have just got are they accountancy work or bookkeeping or both?

MAny thanks

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Just think of yourself as the potential Client Amanda.

If you get a letter / postcard appear on your desk you might read the card and register in the back of you mind before you throw it in the bin who the card is from.

Likelihood is that you will not respond to it.

Couple of weeks later you get another postcard. In the back of your mind you are making a link to the first card. The company has become part of your memory.

Then you throw the postcard in the bin.

Few days later you get a call from the company. Not a sales call, just an introduction. Even if the call goes nowhere you got your name mentioned before the potential client said that they didn't have the time to talk to you.

Three months later you receive another postcard. And another six months after that.

Every Christmas you get a Christmas card

It may not (almost certainly will not except in a very few cases) happen straight away but you have become ingrained in the mindset of local businesses and over time people will start to seek you out as you are not just a number in a book or the result of a web search. You are a service provider who has made the effort and that will win the client.

Its not a quick fix but it will bring a return better than 2% of the potential clients that your campaign focuses upon.

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

Amanda

No follow up just one-off of letter to a selected group. The amount that I am sending of about 200 per month would cost a lot if i did a follow up letter and dont have the time to make calls given work full time as well at the moment.

Out of the 5 clients that I have got; 4 are accounts and bookkeeping and 1 is just accounts.

Fees from them of circa £6k so the cost of sending the letters, about £200, is more than justified if can get fee income of 30 times the cost ie quite happy to spend £1k if will generate fees of £30k year on year.

My intention is to build up to 50 clients by the end of January next year (already have 35) which I think is possible given have signed up 10 since start of October. Then can think about going part time myself, or maybe even full time.

Regards

Mark

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I've been thinking about your posts Mark and I think that there's a variable being missed here.

It seems that you can't throw a rock in Edinburgh without hitting a potential client. I'm based in Staffordshire and even I've got two there (not from there but flitting between financial institutions there (already warned them about the application override to the two year rule)).

I could be wrong but I do not believe that the cast a wide net approach would work anywhere except Edinburgh or London... Makes me wonder if I should move there permanently as the market is completely different to the one South of the border! (and it seems your schools are better as well... If my boy was pure English though I would have serious reservations).

Another thing that occurs is that you may be missing a trick in Edinburgh.

A lot of the workforce is transient and lives out of hotels during the week. Have you thought about approaching hotel owners perhaps on a commission basis? (Note that the small hotel owners also seem to own many of the buy to lets in the city).

Just an idea there peculiar to Edinburgh which as I say is probably only replicated in London.

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

Shaun

My clients are not in Edinburgh as i am not Edinburgh based. Work in Edinburgh but not where I stay.

I have one client in Edinburgh and one near Edinburgh but all the rest are based elsewhere.

None of my mailshots go to Edinburgh addresses.

Not thought about approaching hotel owners but may be something I consider if go part time or full time for myself.

Regards

Mark

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Sorry, my mistake.

Just thought that you were based in Edinburgh.

I was actually lying in bed last night thinking "How is he getting such a good return on unsupported mailshots" and the thing that occurred was the Capital City factor of a lot of business being attracted there.

Well, there goes that idea.

Must just be that the people in Scotland generally are a lot more open to using professionals than botching it themselves as seems to be the case in my area.

Have a good day,

Shaun.

p.s. by unsupported I mean a mailshot without direct followup.

MarkS · Expert

No probs

Think I have just been lucky that the 4 who I have picked up were thinking at the time of getting an accountant.

But good thing is on the back of one of them picked up another client who were based in the same unit and i may pick up another couple who are related to this client. So 1 might mushroom into 4 or 5.

Another 400 letters should be landing today so hopefully will get 4 new clients from that.

Signed up another client last night so think that me up to 36, and he knows someone who is looking for accountant at moment.

Also got another half dozen potentials in the pipeline.

Regards

Mark

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Beleive me Shaun, this is not Scotland wide. I've done a lot of head scratching too. Mark do you have any Irish in you? Or is it just their luck you have?

I think your returns are more than impressive, you either have a really really good sales letter, or you are targetting the right people at the right time.

Hope it continues for you.

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Excellent news Mark,

Good luck with all of the potentials,

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

See how this batch goes as have done two mail shots so far. All the 5 clients came from the first one but none from the second (didnt even get an enquiry).

As said I think it is just down to luck that someone is looking for an accountant when your mailshot lands on their desk, which was the case with the ones I got from the mailshot.

Have a few different marketing strategies but quite difficult to keep them going while working full time.

Once reach 50 clients and hopefully go part time which expect to do probably by the end of January, then the target is to reach 100 client by the end of the year as will have time to go out there and do some proper marketing. Then it is a case of trying to get about 100 good quality clients with average fees of about £800 so can trade year on year just under the VAT threshold as dont want to exceed that as most of my clients are not VAT registered so will just be another 20% onto the bill for them. Would be quite happy to trade at about £80k GRF with costs of about £8k which leaves post tax profits of £58k which would be able to draw down between two individuals tax free. That the plan anyway.

Regards

Mark

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Good point on the VAT.

I've cranked down the banking side of my business and put everything into the accountancy side meaning that I'm coming in well under the threshold this year but picking up.

I have thought of deregistering but I'm hit with the conundrum of how does that appear to clients?

My current client base is predominantly VAT registered limited companies (and one self employed VAT registered) so my issue is not with my current clients but with the fact that I may be pricing myself out of the market for many other potential clients who are not VAT registered.

How would deregistering appear to the existing client base? Would I be at risk of losing clients by affecting their confidence in my business by changing from VAT registered to not?

If I had never been then I do not feel that it would be a problem. It's just the fact that I already am. Hope that makes sense.

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

Personally I wouldnt think deregistering would make any difference to your existing clients. They probably wouldnt even notice or even understand.

But at the end of the day it is your choice but chances are you will be more likely to lose out clients who are not VAT registered who are being quoted by non VAT registered competitors rather than losing existing clients.

I dont have any intention of going VAT registered and it is one of my selling points that as I am not VAT registered as my fees will be a 1/6 less to a potential client who isnt VAT registered who is quoted by a competitor who is VAT registered.

The non-VAT registered sector makes up by far the largest portion of my target market and I dont want to chase them off with the feeling that I am some big flash accounting firm. I am not, I am a one man band and clients deal with me and only deal with me (again another selling point with a client commenting the other night that I was great and so calm and clear when explaining things in English. A direct referral from her said to her "where did you find that guy, he's brilliant and better than any accountant I have had to date). So shows the personal touch works and is probably which I have secured every client I have met except for one and that was only on price issues. I dont have any intention of employing any staff and as said would be happy to trade away year on year just below the VAT threshold which would give me a decent living. I may consider outsourcing some of the bookkeeping work on a fixed fee basis or hiring someone a day a week to deal with the admin side of things but that would be it really.

A quick look at my client list shows there is 6 that are VAT registered, so VAT isnt an issue for the greater majority of my clients.

Regards

Mark

gbm · Guru

We went VAT registered at the beginning of 2008. My main concern was the clients who weren't VAT registered themselves and who were effectively going to see a 17.5% price hike. However, only one client even remarked on it, and he's still with me.

But then again, that was 2008 when the world was a much cuddlier place.

MarkS · Expert

Already got my first appointment from the mailshot.

Might be a nice one as husband has 2 businesses and wife has 1. So three for the price of one maybe.