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Post Info TOPIC: Well what a fracar!! NOT impressed with Intuit


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Well what a fracar!! NOT impressed with Intuit


Below follows a transcript of a conversation with a so called 'support engineer'. My question was how can i submit a partnership return using quickbooks. Short answer is no, but i wanted them to at least reccomend something so i could do it!

You have been connected to Vibhor V.
Gary Martin: later
Gary Martin: ignore that! :/ lol
: Welcome to Intuit Chat Support, Hi Garry, How are you doing today?
Gary Martin: its Gary, one r, and im wondering what can i do about a partnership tax return, i cant fill it in online like a self assessment, it says i have to do it in a separate sotware package
Gary Martin: but you are not a listed third party sofware developer... :/
: I am afraid to inform you that we cannot file partnership tax return from QuickBooks.
Gary Martin: does that include company returns too?
: No it doesn't
Gary Martin: so your telling me an 'accountant' edition can file returns... thats a bit bizarre isn't it?!?!
Gary Martin: *cannot
Gary Martin: why is this? 
I do understand but we can only prepare our financial returns in QuickBooks Accountant Edition but we cannot file it online from QuickBooks.
: We can only file VAT Return and PAYE Return from QuickBooks.
Gary Martin: so how can it then??
Gary Martin: sorry, so how can i file a return online for partnerships and companies?
: You can file your return online for partnership and companies from HMRC website but not from QuickBooks.
Gary Martin: no you cant, theres no facility to do it like there is for self assessments. you have to submit them electronically for HMRC to do anything witht them. (or fill a paper return in, whichis too time wasting) so how can i get my company files uploaded to HMRC and CH? How do you suggest i do it?
Currently experiencing network delays, one moment please....
Network connection re-established.
Gary Martin: otherwise there is no point in having this software... 
:I do understand Gary, As of now we have forwarded this concern to the Product Development team so that we can have this feature available in the coming version of QuickBooks.
: I can only suggest you to do the paper filling of your Partnership and companies return.
Gary Martin: please do. after all i am paying alot of money for the software and it cant do some of the thing i NEED it to do being an accountant. I might of been better off spending my money on Sage.
Gary Martin: by all means leave it out in the lower versions of the programme, but i would consider it a necessity to have this feature on the accountant edition...
: We appreciate your business with us Gary, As of now its not possible for me to get this feature available for you in QuickBooks but I will surely forward your suggestion to the Product Development team.
Gary Martin: so all the work i now entered into the programme i cant use, i have to do it all again and use manual bookkeeping?
Gary Martin: can you not reccomend something to transfer/export data too>
Gary Martin: ?
: I really apologies to inform you that we cannot recommend you to export your data too other software.
: We can only export a list of transactions from QuickBooks to excel.
Gary Martin: well then i shall be taking my business else where. thanks for your time
: Your Welcome Gary, Is there anything else I can help you with?

spacer.gifAnyone think they can help me more than this 'support engineer'????


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Gary

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Actually I think that the support engineer did quite well.

At the roadshow I asked about iXBRL filing and was told that QB is actually bookkeeping, not accounting software and I would also need something like VT or IRIS (at which stage I heard need to spend £199 or £6000, lol).

To file an SA800 wouldn't you just do that online through the HMRC site the same as you would with your CT600? (sorry, not got any partnerships myself so only assuming the filing would be similar). You could then either attach you VT return and tax computations to that or use the HMRC software.

No idea yet how to get the QB data into VT Accounts but that's one of the things on my to do list (which isn't even going to get looked at until next year now).

My one issue is that Intuit call their software the Accountant edition but it does not have the facility to file which is integral to what an accountant does. That aside I think that the guy talking to you did very well.

Normally when I phone any technical support they just say "Have you tried switching it off and on again".

kind regards,

Shaun.




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Shaun

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just frustrated and angry shamus thats all... he wouldn't reccomend anything. In my expereance if you cant get something somewhere the person you spoke to would say have you tried X-shop down the street. This was ceratinly the case when i worked in retail!

Its all customer service, and they always came back saying thanks for the help... i see no such effort here, and im ready to pack the sofware up and send it back! :(


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Gary

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All is not lost though... i can export the data as a .CSV and import it into other packages (according to 3 of the companies i just spoke to to who are on the HMRC authorised list). No why couldn't the Quickbooks help line tell me that!!!

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Gary

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Was VT one of the companies?

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Shaun

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No, why?

I can call and ask... i'm on a roll at the moment!!! lol

 



-- Edited by ClawzCTR on Wednesday 7th of November 2012 03:51:22 PM

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Gary

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Hi Gary,

no need, VT can do it, I'm just not sure how easy it is yet or whether there has to be any manual manipulation of the data as I've not yet tried it with QB myself. (as I say, it's on the to do list).... Ask this question this time next year and you'll get the all singing all dancing this is how to do it answer. At the moment though just don't have the time.

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Shaun

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Shamus wrote:

Hi Gary,

no need, VT can do it, I'm just not sure how easy it is yet or whether there has to be any manual manipulation of the data as I've not yet tried it with QB myself. (as I say, it's on the to do list).... Ask this question this time next year and you'll get the all singing all dancing this is how to do it answer. At the moment though just don't have the time.


 Too late though... i need to do it before Jan 31st as i have a partnership return to do for then! lol



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Gary

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Tell you what though Shamus, just found this via HMRC's website: http://www.sa2000.co.uk/index.htm 

For a small time business such as myself who only has one or two partnership or company tax returns to file these guys look quite promising... only £12.99 per partnership, or £24.99 for CT600's. Download the spreadsheet and fill them in, hit submit and it does it all for you. I may be mistaken (i have been in the past) but it looks fairly straight forward to me... have a look and see what you think.... this way i wont have to worry about finding another software package!



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Gary

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I think you are being harsh on quickbooks gary.

Clue is in its name.......its primarily a bookkeeping package. Sage is no different with Line 50 that costs about a million pounds you record the tra

nsactions, then purchase Sage Tax for a further million pounds to file your tax returns.

In my v(small) practice i use a combination of many products to provide the efficiency and world class service i desire. Hence I use:

Sage 50 : bookkeeping for VAT clients

VT plus : bookkeeping for non vat clients

VT Agccounts: prep of Final Accounts for all (sole / partnership / company )

Moneysoft: payroll

Taxcalc: Prep and submission of all types of tax return

Excel: practice management

 

 



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apologies for above badly formatted post, but posted using HTC mobile and forum diesnt like it! 

 

anyway hope that helps.

p.s. i would sell a kidney to pay for taxcalc ......love it. 



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Hi Luke (lol),

I won't ask whose kidney!

can you go into a bit more detail about Taxcalc please as I just use the VT Taxcomp to prepare my CT600's and as I notice you already have that what is it about Taxcalc that makes you purchase it?

Is filing easier with Taxcalc? How does the software do the actual filing step?

Aslo, why do you not use VT for VAT registered clients? I do and have no issues

Really interesting to pick peoples brains over why they take certain routes (certainly not making any judgement, just inquisitive).

kind regards,

Qui Gon Jin

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Shaun

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QuickBooks don't claim to offer tax return or accounts filing so I don't think they've done anything wrong. I wouldn't expect them to recommend another package, it really isn't their staff's job to know what packages you can use to file a partnership tax return so they simply wouldn't know. Moving on to taxcalc... We use it, too. We started off buying it for a couple of one off partnership returns since they can't be submitted online with HMRC software and we decided it would save so much time for other returns that it was worth investing in. You can do things like flag areas that need to be confirmed to get tp them quickly later which is very useful and for CT it is much quicker to use than the HMRC software. You submit to HMRC directly from the software and it has a few other useful features like submitting 64-8 online equivalent from within the package which takes a couple of seconds and doesn't reject anywhere near as often as it does on HMRC website. The tax calc page is really client friendly, too.

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Cheers Ruth,

thats really useful to know.

It is now getting to the stage with my practice that I can't go wasting time on reentering data unnecessarily which frustratingly I've had to do this year from the VT Taxcomp's. Also doesn't help that the HMRC (and for that matter companies house) online facilities only seems to want part of the information that I want to give it.

Many thanks again for the further details on Taxcalc,

kind regards,

Shaun.





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Shaun

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I must say I agree with the previous posters. The Accountant version merely refers to a few extra features, but accounts and tax production is not included with that.

One of the key things I run through in my mentor training Is the differences between the types of software required.

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Hi Shaun

When I first started I thought having all my software with one company would provide a seamless process and save having to re key data etc. My background in banking and using one in-house bespoke software solution that did everything meant when I emerged into the real world I had very little knowledge of external programs with even excel a current failing of mine. I presume solutions like Iris offer this but the cost / reward does not warrant that for the amount of clients I have. I tried Sage first and that was a disaster......

Hence the solutions stated above....and as Phil correctly states, it is important to understand what you need your software to do as you can hammer a nail in with the back of your hand, but I would much prefer to use the correct tool for the job.

I use TaxCalc proffessional which gives you unlimited submissions of SA100, SA800, CT600's etc. While you can use HMRC software for two of these for free I refer you back to my hammer analogy. You cannot currently submit SA800 via the HMRC gateway so you need something for any Partnerships you pick up anyway.

To input the data into TaxCalc you can use two different options - simplestep, which I use and guides you through the relevent information required and steers you via 'tick boxes' to only the parts of the return that are necessary. In other words it will ask about CGT, and if it is not relevent will jump straight to the next part of the return. The other method of input is 'HMRC Forms' which simply replicates the return as a pdf and you input as you would if filling out a paper return. Good for those that have been filling out paper returns for years and know exactly where to go and what to input.

Second selling point over using HMRC software is that it retains your client info so if you buy next years version it quickly imports your clients and pre-populates the details that will not change. Plus it retains figures such as your Payments on Account from the previous return and how much tax was owed, all the cap allowances you have used and brought forward etc - massive time saver and cuts down on potential errors by not having to re-input.

Thirdly is the output of the return - one click to print or save as pdf, with options to include authority space from customer to sign, plus prints of the tax comp, how much they owe, when they pay it - I used to re-key this into excel to present to client as the HMRC one is horrible, but again, that is all automated for me now and the output is more than good enough to hand straight to them.

Number 4 is the way it handles attachments - I use taxcalcs own computations for a CT600 return and it saves them automatically, but I attach the iXBRL file from VT Accounts for the P&L and Balance sheet. This is a two click process - one to save as iXBRL in VT then one (well maybe two) to save into TaxCalc.

I think that's enough for TaxCalc, and I expect my sales commission to be on its way (joke). As to VT vs Sage argument there are a couple of reasons I use both......

I like Sage (Don't judge me - in fact I have a great reciprocal arrangement with a local AAT accountant who will only use quickbooks for bookkeeping. If she gets a client enquiry from someone who wants to use Sage, and she can't educate them (!) then I get the business, likewise in return quickbooks only enquiries to me go straight to her as I have no interest in using a third bookkeeping program. Anyway, i have used Sage for a long time so like what goes on under the bonnet, especially the current version which allows much faster searching etc. I find the reports much more comprehensive than VT and I like to produce 'management accounts' monthly for my larger clients, hence those that are VAT registered have the larger turnover so need the extra info. I can also submit the VAT return straight from Sage whereas with VT you have to re-key (there is that word again) into HMRC gateway to submit. OK, it only takes 5 mins, but time is money.......

VT works extremely well for my sole traders / partnerships / SA100 type clients and I really like it as I have a good understanding of double entry so can see what is going on, but I would need to export the info into excel to produce meaningful reports which I (a) don't have the time, inclination or indeed uber knowledge for and (b) don't need to when I have Sage that will do that for the right clients.

VT Accounts on the other hand doesn't really care whether you have produced your trial balance on Sage, VT, quickbooks, or indeed the back of a cigarette packet - it allows very easy import via csv with an intuative screen to match your product codes to the standard outputs. Seriously, don't ever try to do this in Sage's Tax Solution - mine went back to them via UPS with a comprehensive letter detailing why the piece of junk that was sold by them shouldn't grace the shelves of a back bedroom software developer let alone the only tech company to be listed in the FTSE100. I got a refund........

Hope that helps mate.....you offer so much to the forum, nice for me to help back.

Cheers.

Standing by for your thoughts.

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VT / Sage / TaxCalc


as an aside I notice Ruth is ex-banking too, so that makes three of us on this forum from that background rather than traditional accountancy route.....interesting....

I wonder if there is anyone of an even basic intelligence left in the banking world, there wasn't when I left - and certainly none with any morals......anyway, I should leave that for another thread. Might make an interesting discussion.



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RE: Well what a fracar!! NOT impressed with Intuit


Many thanks Luke for a great and very comprehensive reply.

If you don't mind I may lift that and include it in the "Convince me that I don't need Sage" sticky (which turned into anything but a one argument thread with sound arguments both for and against Sage)

I have a similar Sage arrangement to yourself with a local chartered practice which really works well for both of us. She gets more clients, I get professional hand holding keeping me sweet with the ACCA.

Its nice to hear that the CSV transfer to VT Accounts works well in practice. Its one of those features that I have seen bandied so many times with software where the reality often proves to be so different to the advertising.

Like the accountant that you work with (#1) I'm hoping to be going down the QB route as well as VT. The shopping basket for next year will now also include Taxcalc (as well as 12pay. Not much different to Moneysoft and really that one all comes down to a matter of preference in using the software).

many thanks again for the reply,

kindest regards,

Shaun.


#1 love the educate them line. Can totally relate! lol

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Shaun

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RedFive wrote:

I wonder if there is anyone of an even basic intelligence left in the banking world


Its a travesty what non banking management and their management consultant lacky yes men have done to the banking and pensions industries.

I have worked with a so many great people who if you lopped their heads off would have the banks name written all the way through them but new managers come in, look at the bottom line and the next thing you know the people who built the banking systems and know it inside out have been right scoped.

All that management see is bums on seats, not the experience and dedication that put the people there.

Worst travesty I've seen (without mentioning bank names) was a sucessful bank taking over a failing one and the management from the failing bank being given the management positions of the bank that took them over as they were cheaper.

I've also seen a scenario where staff were told to teach the people who were to take their jobs or they would be fired and lose their pension rights.

I've actually seen someone marched from their desk by security because they refused to stop coming into work just because they had stopped paying her. (still don't know how she even got in the building! And she certainly couldn't have logged into the system).

One of the cleverest people that I know in banking who was virtually running the payments system for one of the big four is now a secondry school teacher!

I know others who now work on banking systems in Poland as it seems the only place where there are still back office banking jobs (not an option for me with single parenting responsibilities. Doing an Auf Wiedersein pet has to be left to the unincumbered).

All in all, I have to agree, banking in the UK since 2000 has undone itself to a point where they could not now get the right people back as we've all gone off to other industries.

Well, that conversation's depressed me for the day! lol

kind regards,

Shaun.



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Shaun

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Here Here.

Don't be depressed, we are in a wonderful industry which still has many professional people who genuinely care about their clients.

I hug myself every day that the decision I made to walk away from a highly paid, but corrupt job (think PPI - many years ago I was marched out the office for refusing to sell it to people that didn't need it by my sackless boss at the time). I can hold my head up high, he can't.

Have a good day.



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Just to be a bit of a dissenter (no, surely not). I've found taxcalc quite user unfriendly and have been meaning to put my thoughts on paper. I'll say this for starters though - I was using a rival program from 1997 to 2010 so probably became a 'stick in the mud' with it - and generally thats not a good state of affairs. Also the price was going up and they unilaterally changed the renewal date from the end of May to 6th April after being taken over.

So, I've listed the things I find annoying. This may be useful to myself if more experienced users have found a way around them. None of the following is insurmountable and are dwarfed by the difficulty we found complying with iXBRL. As others have said, this can be conquered by using TaxCalc in combination with VT. Ok without further ado:-

Amounts lower than £1 neither appear in the return or the tax calculation. I need to go back to the actual page and open the Wizard to ensure I've entered it. It's still there, just not apparent that it's still there.

Only A-Z and 0-9 characters can be used which limits the usefulness of the Wizards. I want to be able to see at a glance what I meant years ago but cannot enter £ % ( ) & % anywhere, even where the data is not filed with HMRC.

The file status cannot be edited as such - only replaced.

The Help files are always on top of the Return and the menu's open and close at will despite the presence of + and - navigation keys.  

Revenue supplements for all types of income..... MP's, Minister of Religion, Trusts etc clutter up the left navigation menu despite not being within a particular client's Return.

The reports leave a lot to be desired. EG DATA ENTERED REPORT - Repeated lines saying 'Tax Payer Address" x 5 and "HMRC Address" x 5 with white font on dark background.

I've tried exporting the Reports to Excel but I'd have to be an Excel expert to tidy them up.

A system of twenty-odd TaxCalc ID's such as 'ASE' which mean nothing to the casual reader without the legend to hand.

You can remove the dates from reports but not the page numbers. So I have to print out everything every time, then? If so, why allow me to choose any combination of summarys and Revenue pages for printing?

All in all, it's as if the programmers have never had to use the program.  Also, I will say that the Helpline have always been approachable, if not actually able to help.    As I say, I've only quickly cobbled this list together so I may not have expressed myself clearly, but would be grateful for any feedback.

kind regards,

Tim

PS bullet or numbering is not working for brown text only.




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Hi Gary

Have you looked at Andica Software? Their SA800 is £19.95 (+VAT) for 1 user 5 partnerships, download version (Gets even cheaper per partnership if you buy more. Sold in blocks of five)

Simple to use, and autofills some boxes from previous years if you you used it before.

http://www.andica.com/andica_sa800_partnership_software.html

HTH

Bill



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Thanks bill, will look into that later! :D



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Gary

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Hi Gary,

I have used the SA 2000 partnership software for a couple of years as I only have 1 partnership currently. You can download the software for free and only pay when you need an activation code to submit the return. Unless things have changed since last year, being an optomist I always leave it late in the hope that HMRC will introduce parnerships to their free online submissions options.

Gordon

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Thanks gordon that was another avenue to go down, i saw that last week :D

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Gary

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I am similar to above

Use SAGE for bookkeeping (have used it for 15 years). But going to look at Xero and Kashflow as want to offer a cloud offering.

Use VT for final accounts

Use TaxCalc for CT600 and self assessment tax returns

Outsource payroll.

TaxCalc is really easy to use using the simplestep guide (I think it is easier than using IRIS to file a CT600 and self assessment return).  Bit more work in that it isnt integrated with VT so the figures and computations arent pulled across but not much work to manually put in.

When VT renewal comes up next year I am thinking of getting Taxcalc accounts production so will be have a fully integrated accounts and tax package (may also get practice management which is due out next year for taxcalc).  I got taxcalc people to demonstrate the accounts production package when was at accountex conference last week and looks very user friendly and similar to note imputting as IRIS (which means dont need to play about with inserting notes as I do with VT at the moment.)  Taxcalc accounts prod also automatically submits accounts to comp house (though think VT is due to bring out this facility soon).

Regards

Mark



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Mark Stewart CA

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Providing accounting, bookkeeping, payroll and tax services to small and medium sized businesses across Central Scotland and beyond.

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