Hi everyone
I am in the process of finishing my basic bookkeeping course with ICB, with the intention of going all the way to MICB. But looking at the job market it really looks like I need AAT instead if I want to be employed. Id like to start out trying to find a job (i appreciate this will not be easy at all) but would like to be able to call myself a fully qualified bookkeeper when I go for the self employed option. So what should I do? It seems ICB is not really recognised as a qualification by employers but it also seems that as I want to be a bookkeeper and not an accountant the AAT qualification will not allow me to call myself a qualified bookkeeper?
I have read so many posts i may just be getting confused, but i really don't know what to do now. Any comment would be really appreciated as I don't want to spend all my money on the wrong course!
Thanks
Jo
Its an interesting point as AAT will teach you everything that ICB does, you will have the same knowledge (plus more) through AAT but the qualification is in that area between bookkeeping and accountancy without actually firmly being either.
Accountants (ACCA, ACA, etc) do not think of AAT people as accountants despite what the AAT qualification states and the ICB do not recognise much of the AAT qualification as they say that it is accountancy rather than bookkeeping.
The truth is, whatever it is or is not, when it comes to employment AAT is the second best place to be besides qualified or even part qualified with one of the higher bodies.
No matter what the bit of paper that you come away with, be that AAT or ICB you will have the same level of knowledge of bookkeeping knowledge so the issue is really one of recognistion. And AAT wins that battle.
Even if you changed ship to AAT though there is still no guarantee of employment so why not take ICB as far as you have paid for.
You could of cours also do AAT or even the AAT starter course that Premier are running so that you can get AAT on your CV even if only as studying towards the qualification.
The real issue is getting your CV past the agent and the trick to that is it being found in the search in the first place.
The key there would be to have AAT on the CV to that it comes up in the search and then to impress with your previous experience.
Now there's the issue for many, no experience!
The best way to get that really is in a self employed capacity and by temping. A plan would be to get ICB, get a few clients, use that experience to get some temp roles, use the time doing that to get AAT on your CV, then start applying for accounts assistant jobs.
Appreciate thats a long term plan but at least it's a plan.
From the above one point that I think needs emphasising is that the ICB qualification may not get you anywhere but the knowledge gained in acquiring it goes beyond the qualification making taking it a real benefit whether or not you actually get to use it in the real world beyond in your self employed capacity.
hope that helps. Sure that you'll get lots of other better advice in the coming few days,
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thanks for your comments, that is indeed a plan. And sounds good. But hitting forty in a couple of weeks so wondering how employable I will be after doing the self employed/temp route to gain the experience? Making me 42 ish. Do employers employ 42 year old accounts assistants? Would it be more sensible of me to scrap the employed ideas and concentrate on self employed?
Also, as I have read in other posts you have commented on, I did notice that for every bookkeeping job posted on reed there's a staggering amount of applications.
You can buy your way into employment from self employment.
if you get enough clients to make yourslf of interest to a local accountancy practice you could exchange clients for a job.
Its not as silly an idea as it sunds although you would need to ensuure that the prctice could not simply take your clients and then get rid of you.
If you pursue that approach then putting everything behind self employment would be the appraoch to follow.
As for age... Well, I was older than you when I started the switch from banking to accountancy. At 11 years older than you I do get interest from accountancy practices which is lucky as I'm going to need to take one of them up on their offers in order to get my letters and practice certificate.
Downside is that I know that it will cost me possibly all of my current stable of clients to buy a job, I'm going to have to agree not to be in competition against them when I restart my practice and lord only knows how I'm going to balance it with single parenting.
All in all, whether you are completely new to this or a fair way down the path, it remains a complete minefield and so easy to make the wrong choices. There is ageism in this business but as with all things, everything can be circumvented.
To quote Neichze. Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
all the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I wouldn't even bother applying for jobs in that way as the odds are just stacked too far in the wrong direction.
You need employers to notice you rather than chasing them as they get so many unsolicited applications that the bulk do not even get read.
As a self employed bookkeeper you will both deal with accountants at work and network with them.
They may not go out of their way to talk to you but your face will become known and that will open doors.... Espechially a I say above if you have a stable of clients that they would be interested in relieving you of. But if you have, then unless there is some other reason to become an employee why would you want to give the freedom of your own business up?
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I might be not fully up to date but the last time I looked at the "ICB or AAT" options I found the key differentiator was that AAT does not cover VAT accounting (essential to any bookkeeper) and ICB do not cover Tax Accounting (which most bookkeepers would keep well away from).
I've not done AAT myself, just picking that up from Opentuition... Ooh, hang on, I've got some AAT books. Back in two ticks...
Yep, definitely in unit 31. Don't know if it's also covered in other papers.
No doubt Neil (spamkebab) might be able to help out with that one.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
It's covered in level 2 as part of invoicing and where to post in both the general ledger and subsidiary, so from a bookkeepers point of view you have an understanding at least of how to post and prepare VAT invoices, including settlement discounts. In level 3 it goes in to VAT in more detail so you have an understanding of the ins n outs of VAT and what you should and shouldn't do, tax points, imports/exports, supplies/acquisitions how to manually prepare a VAT return, generally covering every area of VAT, any further explanation would require perusing the VAT700 for the rest of your life .
I don't know about level 4 as I have taken an indefinate sabbatical from studying AAT.
I was having difficulty believing that one to be true as VAT is pretty fundamental to the tax system and I don't see many AAT bods left scratching their heads when faced with the subject.
I think that the issue is that some professional bodies and training providers push such misinformation to guide people to their courses and qualifications (there was a particularly bad one on the site the other day about accountancy studies do not include double entry! That one was a complete load of tosh that was so wrong that it actually annoyed me).
Fact is that AAT will cover the entirety of ICB.
That doesn't make ICB a bad choice as it's a much more accessible qualification which fits around peoples other commitments... Although that did change a little when they changed to not being able to get a practice certificate without attending a formal examination rather than home / computer based exams which was the case up to 2010.
For people whose only intent is self emplyment then the ICB qualification offers a good starting point that will be built on by experience.
For people who are looking for employment then it has to be either AAT or one of the higher accountancy qualifications.
That said, I think that ICB are missing a trick.
If employers put people through ICB rather than AAT their qualification would not give them the advantage that AAT does of making them crop up in agent searches when they are thinking of changing jobs but the staff would still have acquired a sound knowledge base in their studies.
But back to more important issues. Whats with this indefinate sabbatical Steve? You are so close!
If your no longer enjoying the studies change provider as there are some really good ones out there.
Also. Opentuition have greatly increased their AAT coverage so there are loads of free resources out there.
all the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
It seems if you want to be self-employed you will get there a lot quicker with ICB? The AAT qualification requires you to pass lvl 4 and have a years work experience before they allow you to be self-employed!?
But back to more important issues. Whats with this indefinate sabbatical Steve? You are so close!
If your no longer enjoying the studies change provider as there are some really good ones out there.
Also. Opentuition have greatly increased their AAT coverage so there are loads of free resources out there.
all the best,
Shaun.
No problem with the provider more the time it was taking up. After chatting to the AAT bods I decided to take a break until I have more time at home, and let my experience catch up with my knowledge. I also fancy taking a course in payroll as I run the payroll but would like to expand my knowledge, before I head in to level 4 AAT.
It seems if you want to be self-employed you will get there a lot quicker with ICB? The AAT qualification requires you to pass lvl 4 and have a years work experience before they allow you to be self-employed!?
That's only if you want to use their name. You can be a self employed bookkeeper without any qualification, as long as you have MLR and it would be a good idea to have PII. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have a lot of years experience though.
Decision made! sticking with ICB and in the future if I feel the need to get AAT I should be knowledgeable enough to just sit some of the exams. Thanks to everyone that commented.
.
