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Post Info TOPIC: Year end and proper book-keeping


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Year end and proper book-keeping
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As you say, the year end procedure clearly hasn't been carried out - for 2011 and 2012 - and the solution to the year end date problem is to do precisely that: process those year ends. However, there is a potential problem that springs to mind, so I'll explain that and a way to check (and resolve) it first.

Since neither of those year ends have been done on Sage, there is a risk that whoever was doing the work before may have entered transactions that are dated prior to each of the year end, but after the data for the year had been sent to the accountants - which means those transactions need to be accounted for in the subsequent year(s). However, just closing down will 'hide' them from Sage's current year - it'll think they've been accounted for simply because they're in the audit trail, dated in the relevant year, before that year is closed.

Given that it was still showing as being in the year to June 2011, the accountant must presumably have produced the 2012 accounts by taking the Sage data and literally subtracting the figures he or she previously had from the 2011 Sage data - and if so, that means any such late transactions in 2011 would have been taken into account in 2012. Therefore, I'm going to assume (even though that makes an ass out of you and me) that's what happened, so I'm going to explain this only for 2012.

So, to check if there are any late transactions (and establish what they are), you need to obtain a copy of the backup that was provided to the accountant to produce the 2012 accounts. Make a backup of the Sage data as it is, and restore that 2012 backup. Make a note of the final transaction number in the financials screen.

Now restore your current backup, and go once again to the financials screen. Click on Search, and on the first line enter:

Where - No - Is greater than - {the final transaction number as noted above}
And - Date - Is less than or equal to - 30/06/2012

If no transactions show up, then great - there were no transactions entered prior to the year end after the year end back up was taken for the accountant. If there are any, though, print them out - you'll need them later.

Now, having done that, to get Sage up to date: Take a couple of backups first, and then perform the year end for June 2011, after which Sage will show the year end as June 2012. Next, repeat the process - another set of backups, and process the year end for 2012. Sage should now think it is in the current year, ending June 2013.

After doing that, you should contact the accountant to ask for the 2012/13 opening balances, and adjust Sage's opening trial balance to match it, because that will almost certainly not have been done either. You only need to do this for the last completed year, because the adjustments affect only the balance sheet.

Now, those late transactions - if there were any.

Depending on what type of transactions they are, you can't just enter them again in Sage - they are still in the history, and you'll potentially mess up certain things: if there is any VAT on them, for example, it almost certainly will have been reflected on a VAT return at some point, so you don't want to account for that twice - but at the same time, the opening balance journals you'll have posted (see above) will probably 'correct' the VAT accounts to figures that were based on balances that didn't include them. Similar problems might crop up with the bank account, or the sales and purchase ledgers.

So you have to look at them intelligently and produce a journal so that the P&L elements are included in this year's P&L. You're going to alter the balance sheet as well - but the opening balances you received from the accountant, since he/she didn't have these transactions, obviously didn't include them. That means when you adjusted Sage's opening balances to the accountant's opening balances, you effectively adjusted these transactions out of the balance sheet - you're now putting them back.

I expect it sounds confusing - and possibly scary - but it just takes a little thought to get it right.

 



-- Edited by VinceH on Monday 11th of March 2013 10:40:18 PM

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So, I have been asked to carry out book- keeping on sage for a company recently. Day 2 and I find that the accounting records are a mess and dis-organised files.

But first and foremost, the year end of the company is June 2013 for the coming year. Sage shows year end June 2011 which suggests that year end procedures have not been carried out on sage. I am inputting data for jan 2013, how do I change the year end on sage properly to June 2013? What procedures should I be following To close 2 years prior to the current one?

 

thanks



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Hello Flower

An unusual post for a first timer, I am a stickler for introductions and I doubt you will get a lot of reponse from your post, may I suggest you introduce yourself in the correct area of BKN?

Dave

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Hi dave, thank you for your reply. Why do you say I would not get many responses to this post?

By way of introduction, I am new to the whole book-keeping world but am an accountant who has mainly worked in corporate restructuring and advisory commercial roles. I am assisting someone to sort out their financial systems starting with general book-keeping and whilst I know how to get where I want in theory, I need to find my way round the software and undo the mess....hope this is useful?

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Hi Flower,

personally I only didn't respond because I saw Sage and after a quick read it really did seem like a Sage issue and I don't take those ones (sometimes people post issues assuming that the problem is with the software but the real issue is more fundamental like yesterdays petty cash post).

Anyway, when it comes to Sage I cannot hope to compete with the likes of Vince or Mark (nor would I want to as the less that I have to do with Sage software the better!).

I'm actually just posting now to say hi and welcome to the forum as there is nothing that I can add to Vince's excellent response.

Don't worry about which section you post in. Personally I never check and doubt if most of the people here do as we just refresh the recent posts.

Its good to know who we are talking to as the answers have to be geared to the knowledge level of the member. That said it's not unusual for introductions to not be the first post.

I personally saw nothing wrong with your question and as stated only didn't respond as it was a genuine question about Sage. If I had responded even to say hi then threads with at least one response are less likely to receive a prompt relevant answer which is why you will invariably see the first post being the answer before the thread degenerates and goes completely off topic.

I totally understand Dave's frustrations as in his day job he has the thankless task of fielding initial queries that I know will often be less than polite. He really is a very, very nice person always happy to go out of his way to help and I am absolutely certain that you will be getting on brilliantly with when you have posted a few times on the site.

Back to your response above. I wished that more people looked at matters from the same perspective as yourself of seeing the end result then working out how to get there. In fact, I wish that more people realised that the software was just a tool rather than the job itself.

Actually, considering your background you would probably be better equipped than myself to pass comment on the petty cash / Phoenix company situation from yesterday if you wanted to take a look at that one or even just give my response the once over to ensure that there is nothing that you disagree with about my appraisal of the scenario.

looking forwards to chatting soon,

kind regards,

Shaun.

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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



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Well its really very important to manage a day to day file updating,  because at the end of the month or at yearly closing it will become a huge work load. Mess fileing are really very difficult to handle.

 


-- Edited by Samson on Wednesday 13th of March 2013 11:19:12 AM

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