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I am starting up a bookkeeping business and looking into what software to use. Xero is looking like my choice at the moment but I'm a bit confused with the subscriptions cost. Would all my clients have to sign up? Or can I sign up as a bookkeeper and have multiple accounts? 

 

Thanks very much 

on a side note would you recommend a non online cloud software programme along side this? 



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I could be wrong but I thought the deal with Xero was that the bookkeeper / accountant gets the software free and all of the clients pay for their software?

Sure that a practice that uses Xero will be along imminently to fill in the gaps.

Personally I don't use any cloud software... Well, except dropbox.

The key to deciding your practices software is to look at your potential client base.

What software do they currently use? Do they need to use that software? What would be the cost of them changing from that software?

kind regards,

Shaun.

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I personally use Quickbooks and sage occasionally.

I don't like the idea of cloud as the other month I didn't have internet connection for 3 days so if I had had a cloud based package I would have been stuffed.

I may look at it in the future but I will always keep Quickbooks on the desktop.

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Amanda



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Thanks for the replies :)

I've looked into xero and kashflow and starting to think what todays role for bookkeepers is? If a client is with kashflow what can a bookkeeper offer? I appreciate that some clients couldn't maintain their accounts online but probably a lot could?

Feedback appreciated, not meant to be argumental just thinking.

Rosie W

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Interesting that you should ask because yesterday we published an interview with a Xero expert advisor and asked whether the software negated the need for an accountant or bookkeeper. You can read the interview here but in essence she stated that an accountant is definitely still required and the requirement for a bookkeeper would depend on the skill level of the business owner and the amount of free time they had. Generally a business owner has more important tasks than bookkeeping though.



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lol. I absolutely loved that there was an ad for Kashflow at the bottom of the Xero interview.

Nice review and somewhat less confrontational than some of the discussions related to Xero that we've prviosly had on the site. (which were actually more down to the confrontational stance of the person telling us that we're all doomed rather than anything related to the actual software).

Personally I have bi current intention of moving from my desktop solution but appreciate that there are those for whome the flexibilty a cloud sollution works.

kind regards,

Shaun.




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Hi

Until yesterday this thread would have probably passed me by but as I have just (this afternoon) signed a client that uses Xero I thought I would have a look and make a comment.

Having had to take a trial of it, so that I knew what I was talking about in the meeting, I think it is a good piece of software for a small business but certainly not one I would use, give me Sage on my desktop any day (sorry Shaun).

Regards

Mark




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RnB books wrote:

I am starting up a bookkeeping business and looking into what software to use. Xero is looking like my choice at the moment but I'm a bit confused with the subscriptions cost. Would all my clients have to sign up? Or can I sign up as a bookkeeper and have multiple accounts? 

 

Thanks very much 

on a side note would you recommend a non online cloud software programme along side this? 


 I am going to use Xero as my cloud package.  Have done all the online courses and accreditation course and just need to do the test when i can fit it in between doing work and picking up new clients (another 3 this week with another meeting tomorrow and a few next week.)

Anyway onto the question. If you register as a practice with Xero then you get a copy yourself free.  You can then add whatever clients you want.  You can pay the subscription on behalf of the client or they can pay themselves.  3 levels of subscription for purchase/sales ledger account or there are 3 cheaper versions for effectively a cashbook system.

Whether it does away with the need of a bookkeeper then if the client becomes proficient in it then yes, but that is the case with any accounts package be it SAGE, quickbooks, VT etc.  If the client can process the day to day transactions they just need an accountant to do the year end stuff.  (even if they need that at all).

The client would give you the permission of financial adviser where you have access to reports which they dont and journal processing, you can also correct their errors.  They have the facility to raise invoices, rec bank, do VAT returns (normal bookkeeping functions).  It is a basic 3 ledger accounts package but clever with the facility such as bank feeds and other things which shortens the normal bookkeeping processes.  Also has add on features which can be added and paid for as needed.

Really depends if it something that your clients will need.  Personally I have only 1 client that uses it but they rave about it but will start recommending to others I think suited for when I become certified partner.  Most of my clients use excel spreadsheets to maintain accounts with probably about a dozen using SAGE.

Personally I would learn one desktop package and one cloud package so you can offer both.  Mine will be SAGE and Xero but could be VT/Kashflow, Quickbooks/FreeAgent.  All comes down to personal preference.  Will continue to use SAGE for the clients that do bookkeeping for.

Regards

Mark



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Providing accounting, bookkeeping, payroll and tax services to small and medium sized businesses across Central Scotland and beyond.



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Xero does make the main, routine bookkeeping task - bank reconciliation - easier. Because bank transactions are imported from online banking, only the allocation to invoices or accounts is needed. And because Xero learns as it goes, over time most types of transaction get automatically recognised and allocated. Reconciliation therefore becomes a matter of clicking the OK button next to each bank entry. I therefore recommend Xero to bookkeepers for this very specific reason: its the slickest bank rec in the business and, because this is a big part of the job, means bookkeepers can be much more efficient. Since, in my experience, business owners are not interested in the bookkeeping process - only in seeing the results - I believe Xero is not a threat to bookkeepers' livelihoods. Quite the opposite: Xero will let you get the job done quicker and therefore make you more profitable. The fact that it's Cloud software has other benefits too, but that would lead me off-topic. Regards Adrian

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Thankyou very much for all the detailed replys it's really helpful to me as while i have the qualifications i lack experience of this field.

A couple of questions:
1. If for example a client uses xero then they would have to pay bookkeeper fees on top of xero's monthly fee? We could charge more if we didn't use xero? (just thinking outloud!)
2. Those who use sage, what sage do you use? Sage instants looks the best for bookkeeping but as far as I can see it only allows one business?

Thankyou very very much for anyone giving their time to reply I really appreciate it!

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The real issue with Sage is the licencing.

The more clients that you have the more that it costs.

Thats completely at odds with the licences of the likes of Quickbooks and VT (I think that the QB limit is 99 clients and VT is unlimited (VT Accounts is the software that I use)).

I think that those that use Sage tend to use Sage Client Manager. (a Sage 50 product. Pretty sure thats Peasie and Marks software).

Really you need to read the "Convince me that I dont need Sage" thread which gives very good arguements both for and against plus goes into other software requirements. That one is one of the few threads to attain sticky status (the other one being the free training stuff thread). Despite the title don't assume that it is anti Sage.

As I said in my first response you need to ask yourself who your client base is going to be. Will you be using their software or your own? Do they care what software that you use? Will your turnover make it worth your while to take on clients that require the se of certain software.

kind regards,

Shaun.

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Yeah sage is very expensive and considering I am tailoring my business towards encouraging cloud software such as Xero and kashflow I don't know if it would be worth it. To be honest the only real reason I lean towards sage is because through my aat i will be sage certified in june so understand the software. I have no experience of other software, will look into free trials if available. Will check out that thread thank you.

Thanks again.

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RnB books wrote:

1. If for example a client uses xero then they would have to pay bookkeeper fees on top of xero's monthly fee? We could charge more if we didn't use xero? (just thinking outloud!)
2. Those who use sage, what sage do you use? Sage instants looks the best for bookkeeping but as far as I can see it only allows one business?


 1. You could but would the client pay more?  What would you use if they didnt have xero?   You would need to use some sort of cloud/desktop package to maintain their records.  In my experience clients arent really interested what software you use they are just interested in the end result and the price for getting to the end result.  Xero basically gives them freedom to access their accounts info when out and about as long as can access internet rather than only accessing from a fixed computer.  They can also be educated about bank recs, raising invoices, processing expense claims, etc.  If they cant be bothered learning it then it is a case of seeing whether xero from your own viewpoint is a) more cost effective than another option and/or b) streamlines your normal process which it certainly does via bank feeds and auto learning previous transactions.

2. I use client manager which is a 25 licence version (can set up and access 25 clients at the same time though could use as many as you wanted if you backed up and restored though same could be argued for a 1 licence version) that can be used for any version from SAGE instant through to SAGE 50 accounts professional.  Also get stand alone copy of SAGE 50 and SAGE payroll and discounts on any purchases you make for clients.  Think it is 20% discount.  Costs approx £960 (inc VAT) which you can pay monthly interest free at £80 though you will get a discount in the first year to get you hooked into the system.

Regards

Mark



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Thanks everyone.

I have just downloaded the free VT cash book and it's really good! You expect the more expensive things to be better but i'm starting to realise this is not always the case. When VT says so many users that doesn't restrict on the business data it can hold? (not the best with technical talk!)



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Hi,

not sure of the question being asked? is it to do with the licencing? Can you rephrase please rather than me answering completely the wrong question.

Personally I've not come accross any capacity issues with the software for any client and each client being a seperate file the size of each has no impact on any other client.

To work as a bookkeeper you need to use VT Transaction+ rather than VT Cashbook but it's still not expensive.

Transaction+ has a very similar interface there's just much more of it (and I think trasnaction+ is actually easier to use than the cashbook).

The nice thing about the cashbook is that you can give it free to clients to enter their own data (where you trust them to do that!).

kind regards,

Shaun.




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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



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Yeah the cashbook seems really good. When I go onto the vt website it says single user : price, and then has an option for 'every additional user: price'.

Just trying to understand what this means? Someone being able to access it on a different computer maybe? It also says its a yearly thing, but you can just buy it once if don't want the support?

Sorry for all the questions, thankyou for your help!

Rosie.

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Hi,

the way that they write the license agreement is confusing when you initially read it. (got me as well).

the license is basically that you can install the software on as many machines as you use but if you have more than one person in the business who also needs to use the software then you need to buy a second licence.

The cashbook software is free and outside of the licence agreement so can be given to as many clients as you need.

Personally I've got it on two machines in the home office, one in the actual office plus the laptop. A single licence covers that (I use the accountant edition which includes VT Accounts and VT Transaction+)

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. got to go out now but will be happy to answer any follow up questions inan hour or so when I get back.

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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



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Thankyou very much. I have just downloaded the free trial of VT Transaction and am pleasantly surprised! It does everything a bookkeeper would need from sage and in such a simpler way. Produces sales invoices to print in seconds, I love it! Think this will definitely be my desktop software of choice, and at such a reasonable price. Very glad I have found it.

Thanks again,
Rosie

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Sorry, a tad late to this question.

There are two aspects to pricing for Xero, firstly what business users pay which is detailed at http://www.xero.com/pricing, and then what members of the Xero Partner programme (for bookkeepers or accountants only) pay.

Xero Partners get discount on behalf of any clients they add to their Xero subscription, so for example if you were a bookkeeper with 2-3 clients using Xero with you, you'd get 15% off the standard business pricing.

This discount increases as you add more clients, so at 5 or more clients it increases to 20%, with 25 or more clients on Xero the discount is 25% and so on.

Furthermore, Xero Partners also have three extra product price plans (which are not available to business users) for a Cashbook only version of Xero at £9 per month per client (no discount) right down to a cheapest and most basic price plan which is £2 per month per client.

It doesn't cost anything to become a Xero Partner, if you wish to be a Xero Certified Partner there's a web based training course that costs £149 plus VAT, and once you've pass that you are then entitled to a listing on the Partner Directory at http://www.xero.com/advisors/?country=uk&service=bookkeeper 

Hope this answers the original question.

Regards,

Gary Turner
Managing Director, Xero
@garyturner

 



-- Edited by garyturner on Saturday 6th of April 2013 09:05:01 AM

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