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Post Info TOPIC: ACCA after AAT ?


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ACCA after AAT ?
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Good morning!

I would kindly ask for advice on this matter

I have completed AAT and now I have got F1 F4 exemptions on ACCA.

I`ve tried to do Taxation first but failed after three months of studying every morning. This was the first exam I have ever failed since starting AAT. And I really think there is too much information in the ACCA exam or maybe Taxation is one of the hardest and I was unlucky enough to be my first exam.  

Q:

1. Is F6 Taxation one of the hardest ACCA exams?

2. Is there any point on doing ACCA after AAT (as I`ve heard that you can only name yourself ACCA accountant after completing three years with a certain approved employer, so as sole trader bookkeeper you cannot use ACCA on your stationery ) ?

3. What are the benefits of actually taking the exams in terms of opening your own business?

I could as well read the books without sitting the exams in order to absorb the information.

 

Many thanks, smile

 Have a perfect day !

 

Adrian

 

 



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This is just my personal opinion. Advice should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

 

P.S. I only ride a motorbike because I want to dry my clothes faster 




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Is F6 the hardest?

No, but its not the easiest either (I would say that was P1 which is a very waffley paper).

Officially the hardest ACCA exam is P2 which is referred to as the beast and if the most difficult paper of ANY professional body. Strangely though it has a higher pass rate than many other ACCA papers.

My personal view is that the most difficult ACCA paper was F4 but that was also one of those that I enjoyed the most (along with P3 and P5).

As you go through your studies you will find that some subjects come naturally whilst others may be a struggle and which exam falls into which category very much varies from one person to another.

F4 is actually the paper where most people drop out of the qualification as it comes as quite a shock to many that it is a pure law paper (to be honest I don't think that they should give exemptions for that one from AAT as I'm not seeing that AAT covers the same material to the same level).

The issue with F6 is that unlike AAT which breaks things down into chunks ACCA expects a general knowledge of all elements of taxation.

With the F level papers you are tested on your skills without trying to catch you out. Its very much the technichal level where the P level papers assume that you are now in a management role reviewing the work of others and talking with clients rather than your own managers.


What is the point of doing ACCA.

Well, a lot of people start it but few complete it. ACCA ingrains in those who take it a knowledge that often you do not even realise that you have until put under pressure.

Whether you are able to use the letters eventually or not what you are attaining is a knowledge base second to non. AAT will teach you the basics to the level of ACCA papers F2 and F3 but after that ACCA expects a far deeper level of knowledge including being able to quote from financial reporting and audit standards which is really preparing you to argue a clients position.

Even if you cannot use the letters, having qualified gains th respect of the other bodies and ACCA is often used to exempt oneself from the exams of bodies such as IFA, AIA etc. in order to get a practice licence.

Organisations such of these are over the moon to be able to have membership trained to ACCA standards as the quality of members work is a reflection on the professional body.




On the practicalities of membership

To become a member you need to gain two years signed off in a relevant role under a suitably qualified accountant (not necessarily ACCA).

You will have to complete an experience return showing that you have gained practical experience in certain areas, some of which can be quite difficult to attain in small practices.

There is a difference between membership and being able to practice.

To become a member you need two years signed off either before or after you qualify.

To be able to practice you need three years signed off two of which must be post qualification.

 

How to pass F6

F6 is not too bad as its one where you can use a methodical approach to gaining the knowledge. I don't think that F6 itself was really the problem but rather the change of format, complexity and time pressure of exams (if you could do the exam in the time frame then you've missed something)

1) study the BPP i-learn CD from one end to the other. write out ever question in the course on an index card with the answer on the flip side. Seperate the decks of cards into :

IHT

Capital Gain

Incorporated Busiesses

Unincorporated Businesses

Overseas aspects of taxation

Property Businesses

Groups

VAT

Tax on Individuals

Partnerships

N.I.

 

The course, including writing out the cards should take less than 3 weeks.

Throughout your studies keep shuffling each deck and then do every question in the deck, sequentially, one end to the other.

Try to do a whole deck in one day or all decks in a weekend.

 

2) Use the Kaplan study text for P6 to pass F6 (P6 includes everything from F6 plus more and when one is talking tax the more you know the better). Set yourself a timetable of 31 days to read from start to end of the book doing every question along the way and bookmark good questions to go back to.

3) Use the BPP I-pass cd to test your knowledge first by subject then random batches of 50 questions a day.

4) 6-8 weeks before the exam start to use either Kaplan or BPP exam kits. I use Kaplan and do the questions in the kit not from question 1 but rather batch the questions by exam that they were sat and do the equivalent of one exam per day for the month before the actual exam.

 

ACCA exams

The exams are designed to put you under pressure.

There is not enough time in the hall to answer the questions properly and at times it seems that thoose who know less are actually favoured over those with too much to write.

What the ACCA seem to be going for is that candidates for ACCA papers should not have to think about things such as standards which should be ingrained from studies but rather you should be thinking about application of the standards to the question.

The ACCA know that given time people in the hall could score very high marks but 50% is a pass mark as you are expected to evaluate a scenario and make key points quickly without enough time available to complete the exam.

Those who don't do ACCA look at 50% pass mark and think that means that those sitting the exams are allowed not to know 50% of the answer but thats not factually correct and the 50% is purely that you are put in a pressure cooker with most of the work that you need to do achieving few or no marks as you get to argueing a conclusion.

Another thing that often surprises those from other qualifications is that there may be more than one right answer and also a well argued incorrect answer can still pick up points if the answer has technical merit.

 

Why did you fail?

Three months isn't enough for the information at this level to become ingrained. Studies alone will take three months and then you need a two month run up to the exams as a revision period not just to ensure that you know the information but to keep increasing your speed.

ACCA suggest 150 hours study per paper but I can't think of any paper which has taken less than 350 hours out of my life in study and revision time (and on the day of the exam I sit in the car park with my decks of revision cards from 05:00 through to 09:45).

Note that you can't study every day as you will not take it in. Ensure that you have inset days where you do no study at all. Play computer games, go to the pub, do anything but study.

The normal reason for people failing when they come from a different qualification is an expectation that ACCA is the same as their previous qualification.

It really isn't.

When I started the qualification I joined along with several others who were doing / had done the Open University certificate in accountancy.

The OU course gave exemption from the first three ACCA papers and all but myself took the exemptions.

I found that doing the first three got me into the ACCA mindset and I was able to pass the exams.

The others struggled starting at 2.1 (which became F5) and almost all dropped out after 2.2 (now F4) and after a couple of years I was the last one which I really put down to taking the exams rather than the exemptions.

The above said, I think that the AAT qualification should legitimately justify F1 thrugh F3 but I do think that you may not have been prepared from the step up in complexity of the ACCA qualification.

 

Sure that there was lots more that I intended to say when I started writing this but I'll post it now and sure remember the other bits in a min.

I hope that you don't give up on the ACCA as whilst at times its a qualification which might stand in your way (espechially regulation 8 that stops you from offering services beyond bookkeeping to trail balance, VAT and Payroll services no matter what other qualification you may have!), the knowledge base that you gain is real accountancy whereas AAT whilst a very good qualification was only ever an introduction to it.

kindest regards,

Shaun.



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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



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Thank you very much Shaun for the answer.
It really makes me happy and sad at the same time. From one of your previous posts I have seen that the expected time to complete the ACCA is about 8 years. In my case should be the same or more as I can only study 2.5 - 3 hours a day.
I am 32, this should take me to 40 years old.
Studies already made: Economic High School 4 years, Accountancy University 4 years, AAT 3 years.


The effort is very well represented, as a good portion of my life spent studying.
What is the result?
If the result is the one that I`ve just had with my previous job, a disrespectful boss with no respect for my hard work and willingness to improve each day, I am happy to quit altogether the Accountancy profession. His actually words were: `anyone can be an accounts assistant` !
And I totally agree.
As you said in another forum post, 800 people applying for a single job, they can easily replace you within an hour. They treat people without respect and I cannot stand this. Not after all this years spent studying.



On the other side, I would like to ask what does AAT gives you the chance to do.
Can I run my own small practice coached by someone with experience?
And what are the services that I am allowed to offer?
Do you think there is still place for a small business in current market conditions where according to accounting WEB, there are more and more accountancy practices opened by experienced accountants?


My problem is that I am not really seeing myself in an employee position anymore.
I just want to make my own business in any field. I would say accountancy because of the 11 years of study but after all I see, tax returns for £ 30 and jobs paying £ 8 ph for a qualified bookkeeper, maybe just make a research and see what the market needs before deciding to do my own thing.
After all, what chances do I have compared with someone who has 20 years of accounts experience under their belt?


__________________

This is just my personal opinion. Advice should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

 

P.S. I only ride a motorbike because I want to dry my clothes faster 




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I don't think that everyone can be an accounts assistant but I do think that there are too many accounts assistants in the market place to give those looking for work and even those in work a strong bargaining position.

Sometimes in the work environment one needs to think upon the quote by Freidriche Neiche when he said "Everything that does not kill us makes us stronger".

Considering your background then ACCA in 5 years should be quite achieveable.

You say that you only have 2.5-3 hours per day but start adding up other available time.

As examples I have decks of revision cards in the toilet and in the car. When I pick my boy up from school I go through all 108 ethical, financial and audit standards every week day. For example, on one side of the card it will have IAS37 and on the other side it will have Provisions, Contingent Assets and Contingent liabilities. The toilet deck is all definitions taken from the standards so on one side it will say Provision and on the other a liability of uncertain timing or amount.

Also start making up acronyms to remeber lists. The acronym doesn't have to mean anything but it serves two purposes. it gives you the first letter of each word you need to remember and it lets you know if you've missed one. Again its something that you can do with take anywhere, do anytime revision cards.

Start adding up all of the time that you are waiting or travelling or on the toilet and it soon starts mounting up.

if you gained ACCA by 40 you still have a head start on myself as I was 44 before I even started down that route.

The thing to remember is that when you are looking to have your own business there is no retirement age so its not the same mentality as when studying in your early twenties to find a job.

The last paragraph of your note is worth a seperate thread if you have the time to post it.

That goes beyond the what is the point in ACCA (which as you know I will defend to the hilt as a knowledge base) to what is the point in bookkeeping and accountancy in an industry that is killing itself by neither term being protected in statute so qualified people are jumping through burning hoops to complete against those who think that being able to add up a column of figures is the basis of a business without any serious study or qualifications.

How can any industry be right where it takes years of ones time and thousands of pounds often of ones own money to attain a position paid less than the office cleaner (nothing against office cleaners but I think that you see the point) due to competing against those offering their services for next to nothing.

I've got to go out for an hour now but if you want to make that one a seperate thread it might yield some interesting discussion.

kind regards,

Shaun.

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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



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Many thanks Shaun, as always your advice is highly appreciated.
I will start another topic with the last paragraph.

Many thanks,

Adrian



__________________

This is just my personal opinion. Advice should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

 

P.S. I only ride a motorbike because I want to dry my clothes faster 




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@Shamus I have just completed my AAT Level 3 and will be starting my Level 4 in September, after which I will be making a decision whether to go down the ACCA/CIMA route. The one thing I wanted to say from this post and another one which you commented on (the dilution of AAT as a qualification) - is that I won't be taking any exemptions. I also respect your studying structure and I can see that one needs to be prepared for the 'step up'.

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