I started to do some bookkeeping for a friend of my boyfriend. He set up a business with 2 other guys. They thought they could do all the bookkeeping themselves and have realised they can't as they don't know how to use sage and have no idea about accounts etc.
I was asked to help out and have been paid for my time. The friend has now resigned as a director and left the company right on top of the first VAT return being due. Luckily I had prepared everything ready.
I have made contact with the company and offered to continue with the books and VAT returns but they have told me today they are ditching Sage and doing it all through excel. I am trying to convince them that it is not the right thing to do. There is too much for them to do and they don't fully understand accounts. These people are manual workers who need to be worrying about getting work done and should be leaving the accounts/bookkeeping to someone who does just that.
How would you try and persuade someone who thinks they can do the books themselves? I didn't even mention bank rec's and marking off who has paid and who hasn't and the same for suppliers etc.
Depends on the size and complexity of the company.
Over the last year I've had quite a few small companies dump Sage and they are much happier bunnies as a result (they had previously felt slaves to the software).
Conversely I have also had clients that I have advised that the complexity of their operations is such that to change software would be more expensive than keeping it. (I give those one's to an accountant freind of mine in exchange for supervision).
If they want to go down the do it themselves route and there is no reason why they should not then let them but try to convince them to allow you to do the final accounts and filing.
The question to sit back and ask yourself (and one that I've witnessed myself) is whether the client is dumping you because you want them to use Sage and they don't want it but see your services entwined with the software?
If you want to use Sage, you could always annualise the service, verify the trial balance and use whatever software you want to process it be that Sage or VT or IRIS or whatever.
Trying to convince the client to use something that they really do not like though is like trying to push a boulder up a hil and will ultimately lead to complete loss of the client where you could with a bit of work retain the period end work by convincing them that you know how to knock up a mean CT600 and save them tax by you staying abreast of changes in the tax and financial reporting system so that they can concentrate upon their business without fear of overpaying tax, plus penalties, interest and surcharges that they may incurr by getting things wrong.
Probably not the black and white answer that you are looking for but thats my take on matters, (let them dump Sage and you just retain that accountancy stuff)
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
What Shaun said - but I'd also suggest trying to persuade them to let you check their Excel work before they proceed with each quarter's VAT return. That way, you can spot any mistakes they are making and correct (and explain) them - which could potentially save them money/prevent problems further down the line. (The flip side, though, is that if the mistake means more money for them - such as claiming VAT on something they shouldn't - then they might not be too happy about correcting it, even though the potential cost later down the line could be fines and such.)
And taking on board Shaun's point that they might think you're Sage-centric and they don't want to be locked into it, doing so would show them that you aren't and that the software in use isn't that important: It's knowing what to do with all these pesky numbers, and understanding what they all mean!
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
It was the accountant that set them up on Sage and then left them to fend for themselves. That is how I ended up getting involved. They have made so many mistakes on Sage and that is why i ended up taking over. I don't think they have got a clue what they are doing. They think it's just a case of entering sales and purchase invoices on to the spreadsheet.
We use a spreadsheet in my main job as a cash book recording all cash in and out of the bank so I could use this for their sales and purchases with a column for the VAT.
It's winning them over that is the hard part as they had a falling out with one of the directors and I was doing the books for him.
I suppose I could give them a bit of breathing space and then contact them to see if they need me to check anything for them.
Potentially it could grow in to a sizeable company so sage would have been better for them but that's just me saying that as I have never used VT or Iris. I am used to large ERP systems such as SAP and Tetra.
I'll think about it over the weekend and see if I should contact them again or just let them go.
You don't say why your boyfriend's friend resigned as a director (and is that the director that they fell out with??) but it might be that since you are associated (via your boyfriend) with the former director, the remaining directors want a "clean break" and that the move from Sage is a secondary issue or they are using it as a tactful excuse.
That aside, I think it's quite difficult, anyway, to convince a client who is determined to go "DIY" and perhaps the best thing to do would be to bow out gracefully, and reassure them that you will be available should they change their minds, get stuck or they get too big to "DIY."
The director resigned for a number of reasons and it's pretty serious so I cannot say. It's not something he has done but the remaining director. It all turned very nasty. They don't appear to appreciate what I have done for them. Their own accountant didn't even realise they were ready to submit their first VAT return. It's only when the director(friend) resigned he thought it was the decent thing to contact the accountant to get the VAT submitted. It's due on the 7th and still hasn't been submitted as of today.
The accountant emailed me to see if I had the VAT return and log in details for me to submit but unfortuntely I don't have the backup on my PC.
I've emailed the remaining director to tell him about using VT but even so I think they will struggle whatever they use.
I'll have to leave them be for now and like you say let them know I am there if they need me.
