Companies fill out a CT600. (the short version of it for most SME businesses).
They also file their accounts with companies house plus supporting documentation (tax calculations and accounts) with the CT600.
The directors of the limited company will still have to file self assessments but they are not self employed (directors are empoyee's) so they do not fill out those pages.
HTH,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
On a related note, I am trying to find out exactly what service a bookkeeper can offer a limited company. I initially tried to attract sole trader clients, but have had more interest from limited companies, and no longer want to turn them down, so am going to focus more effort in this area. I have requested this information direct from the ICB but am still waiting for an official answer, and in the meantime want to make a start on updating my website.
I have a practice licence with the ICB, being a full member (MICB) and am officially allowed to draft final accounts for limited companies. I recently posted a similar message on the ICB forum but would like to spread my net further and wondered if anybody on this site had the equivalent qualifications and how they went about things. Basically I am after a definition for draft final accounts. Does it stop at producing the trial balance? Can you prepare the Profit and Loss at the end of the financial period? Can you produce the opening balance sheet? (I understand that I cannot file company information with companys house.)
From an accounts point of view, a sole trader could do them on the back of a fag packet. There is no requirement for an official set of accounts. A limited company must file accounts that comply with Companies House standards, usually under FRSSE for small companies. Once you have decent template, which has the standard disclosures, they are pretty much all the sames. (Note I am being general not specific about them all being the same)
When dealing with limited companies you must prepare two sets of accounts, a full set (for submission with the CT600) and an abbreviated set (submitted to Companies House). The latter contains less information, because they are available for public viewing. HMRC expect full accounts and CT600 to be in IXBRL format... like word/excel/jpeg.. its a type of file.
I am also MICB and have previously (as have many others) tried to get clarification as to what Level 3 and the new Level 4 allow you to do, or more to the point do not allow you to do. There have been many posts on the ICB forum which have either had a rather vague explanation or in several cases, no response at all. As Michelle has said draft final accounts are basically unsigned final accounts and you are allowed to produce them as MICB. Limited Company accounts have to be signed by a director and from that point can be filed by anyone, you cannot however sign an accountants report(there is no legal requirement to have one) but you might want to consider if any potential client will be using the company accounts to present to banks/lenders who would require that report. As I see it there are 2 main points to consider, firstly what the terms of your practice licence and Insurance cover you for and secondly if you have the required knowledge with regards to corporation tax etc. There is also wording of any advertising complying with ICB rules (no mention of the word accountant or tax advice spring to mind). There have also been many comments as to where bookkeeping crosses the line into accountants territory. I have decided that IFA/FTA, rather than ICB level 4, is the way forward. I posted on this sight last month trying to get some insight as to how moving from ICB to IFA might work but unfortunately had no responses. Perhaps Shaun might pick up on this.
The ICB get out of jail free card is burried in the line that you should not perform any task that you are not qualified and competent to perform.
So, how do you get compwetent without experience?
How do you get experience if you are not allowed to perform the task?
Bit of a catch 22 there.
Don't get me wrong, I actually agree totally with the inclusion of that line but it does cause a cunnundrum in that the thousands of bookkeepers who are churned out by training companies with no practical experience can gain a practice certificate and PII but both the ICB and the PII provider have a get out of jail free card.
That would tend to say that only those with experience or who are looking for supervised permanent / temporary work should train as bookkeepers... Of course can you imagine the closure signs going up on training company doors if that were the case!
My view is that the unemployed to self employed bookkeepers route where someone has never worked in this industry is a misconception which is maintained by those that risk disciplinary action and ignore the ICB rule successfully.
And for those who are not successful the PII is not worth the paper that it is written on and one stands to suffer disciplinary action for overstretching one''s remit.
This has been covered quite a lot on here which ends up simply as a regurgetation of ICB rules but I'm trying to think beyond that to how the qualification is pitched to people from outside the industry as a means of entry into it.
I think that it is very successful at that but those entering by that door need to be carful that there is actually a minefield to cross in relation to the difference between what you need to do for clients as opposed to what officially you are allowed to do for clients before you get to where you want to be.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I have replied on the other thread and agree totally with the above. My own position currently is that I have friendly FCCA who will do any tax work that I am unsure of at greatly discounted rate, however as he was introduced as a friend of a friend I feel that it was probably only meant to be a short term solution. So the next question is do many people use "virtual accountants" as back up?
With ICB level 3 you can draft the accounts, but you wouldn't have the knowledge to prepare final accounts eg level 3 does not include deferred tax for instance or the required notes. Similarly level 3 does not involve any study of corporation tax.
Level 4 does cover these things though so with level 4 you can do the accounts and corporation tax for a small company fully (assuming no special circumstances that might put an individual company beyond your competence).
Many thanks all for helping with my question. I do realize that I need to get more experience on companies. In the mean time, I have loads of good news from the Accountex Exhibition and if I may, I will start a new topic soon.
Best regards,
Have a lovely Sunday,
Adrian
__________________
This is just my personal opinion. Advice should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
P.S. I only ride a motorbike because I want to dry my clothes faster
Thanks for the replys relating to my question. Some very useful comments that are very much appreciated. I will make sure that I stay well within my remit (and comfort zone) with what I am prepared to do. To be honest, I noticed from the enquiries I have had from small companies that they have accountants but are getting in a muddle trying to get their books ready to hand over to the accountant. They have perhaps muddled through for a while, built up a backlog and decided to get someone to keep things in order for the future once the current mess has been sorted (the one common factor I have noticed is the phrase we have a bit of a backlog at the moment, so probably need X amount of hours work for the first few weeks, but it will be half that once things have been sorted). They understand that bookkeepers rates are generally a lot cheaper than accountants, and see the value in having a bookkeeper in this respect.
Hi Rich, this was also my case. I have received a call from someone who was in the media industry and have a box full of receipts. Also at my last workplace there was like a pile of papers needed sorted out. This is proper bookkeeping work.
But I think the fun begins when you are trying to give the client a quote as some clients use multiple bank accounts for payments and some receipts do not really show very clear what they have bought, so it may take longer :) than usual.
Have a good day.
Adrian
__________________
This is just my personal opinion. Advice should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
P.S. I only ride a motorbike because I want to dry my clothes faster
