Oops, cheers Amanda. All fixed now.

thats what happens when you've got half a dozen diferent tabs on the go at the sme time... Actually, let me count them...

Sod the half dozen. I've actually got 92 current tabs open, lol. There one of them (burying the billable hour) thats actually been open since before Christmas! (really must find the time to read that).

On the misposted link I was also posting a link to some free QB vids and must have had that in my copy area, doh!

Cheers again,

Shaun.

Shamus wrote:

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Not yet but I'm willing to give it a chance as I've already alienated myself from the current UK market leader.

---

Well, yes, there is that!

I've had numerous little arguments with Sage over the last few years, ranging from their reluctance to accept bug reports from users who do not have Sage Cover, even when the software is less than a year old, through to being accused by them of being in breach of their licence (which they finally accepted was a misunderstanding on their part) - right up to the most recent one, where I had to report them to the ICO for spamming.

My policy on spam is that I will not do business with spammers, unless it's unavoidable - but I do reserve the right to call them spammers while doing so. I therefore told Sage in no uncertain terms, and on several occasions, that when my current Sage Cover contract runs out, it will not be renewed; I'll just carry on using the version I have and, if I ever do need to upgrade, I'll buy the cheapest option available that suits my needs and from the cheapest source I can see. (For example, if I gain a new client for whom Sage would be the best choice, rather than pay Sage to increase the number of companies for which I am licenced, if Sage Instant will suffice, that's what I'll get - which means a lot less money going into their bank.)

But a logical extension of that is that I will also spend money on alternatives if I consider them a viable alternative - which is why, despite my previous dislike of QuickBooks, I was willing to buy it at a sale price: it may feature a user-interference instead of a user-interface, but I could still use it, and for more than one company without having to pay the ridiculously high Sage-tax for doing so. (It just won't be for my existing data-sets!)

Edit: Where did my paragraphs go?

-- Edited by VinceH on Saturday 22nd of June 2013 01:01:19 PM

VinceH wrote:

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Yeuck. People actually like that?

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Not yet but I'm willing to give it a chance as I've already alienated myself from the current UK market leader.

I'm also figuring that I've got to adopt at least one of the cloud offerings although to be honest I still have difficulty seeing the point in them when I need to see physical evidence of all data entered.

Being able to access data anywhere... Personally I call that a laptop!

 

 

Hi Vince,

just finished the excercise for one client of going full cycle with their books.

Started off with this clients accounts being produced in Sage (from previous accountant). I learnt VT a couple of years back by creating a set of accounts that matched the accounts produced by Sage.

Now did the same thing with the same clients set of books with Quickbooks and have a set of accounts that matches to VT (well, the balance sheet and P&L anyway as QB lacks proper accounts production which really seems a bit of an oversight by Intuit).

I would not say that it was bad software. I did however find it somewhat frustrating and slow to use compared to VT.

It seemed to be very end user focused rather than expecting any knowledge of accountancy which is both a good and bad thing in that end users will find it easy to get into but the likes of ourselves may get frustrated at the lack of accountancy terminology such as Accruals and Prepayments. Also bills and payments against them both being negative against different accounts looks wierd even though theey are balanced off properly.

Didn't like that new pages were not created in their own windows so could not be pulled out to different screens.

The software abended a few times (averaged around three crashes a day) but it never lost any data and never required a system restart both of which were good (by comparrison though VT has yet to abend on me once).

I could see a lot of functionality there such as stock control that I was not using.

Came away thinking that I must be missing things such as when paying several bills in a single payment the bank statement shows the breakdown of the bills rather than the total of all bills in a single payment which is what I would expect to see (and how it appears in the actual payment on the bank statement).

Also Intuits fixation with cheques seems to border on the obsessive compulsive.

Then again, I can see that basing the software around the idea of a cheque book would work well with end users

All in all, I can see that it's the sort of thing that I could see end users really liking once they get used to it.

From my own perspective I am torn in that the reports are very pretty and useful so could see the software as excellent for management reporting.

Lack of iXBRL, properly formatted final accounts and tax calculations shoots it in the foot for financial accounting though (how can they call it an accountant edition! lol).

For bookkeeping, if you know double entry VT is much faster to use but lacks QB's bells and whistles related to stock control.

At the end of the day, after having had a play around with it I would not reject a client or try to get them to change their software if they came to me as an existing QB user. I could even see situations where I would advise clients to go down the QB route.

Personally though whilst happy to use the QB software I could not see myself moving away from VT for it.

Hope that this did not come accross as negative towards QB which was not the intention or my feeling towards it.

kind regards,

Shaun.

There is a batch entry screen on QuickBooks 2013 and you can do multiple bill payments so that there is only one bank entry. I'm not sure what you mean about the new windows on separate screens issue, they are separate windows within the QB screen.

I don't use VT very much for bookkeeping so can't comment on that but I find QuickBooks massively quicker to use than Sage, Xero or Clearbooks.

"There is a batch entry screen on QuickBooks 2013"

There is? I couldn't see anything that looked like what I described* when I looked before, and I'm looking again now and still can't see it.

* What I described being "grid based (ie one transaction per line)" - not to mention those things I, erm, didn't mention, such as the very useful for rapid entry F6/Shift-F6 for copying the cell above, or the increment of the cell above.

My first thoughts are that you mean "Use register" (on the Tools menu) and select (for example) "Accounts payable" to enter purchase invoices, but as far as I can see, if you do that you aren't taking VAT into account. In fact, trying that for sales invoices actually gives you a warning that "VAT is not added when entering transactions directly into the Customer register".

The next thing which looks like a plausible contender is "Add/Edit Multiple List Entries" (on the Lists menu) - but that seems to be limited to customer and supplier details, service items, and non-stock parts.

On the Customers menu there is "Create Batch Invoices" - but what that seems to do is allow you to raise the same charges to a batch of customers (potentially handy, but not what I described).

Beyond those, I can see nothing that is a grid based, one transaction per line method of entry - noting in particular that Sage provides this for all types of transactions (except, stupidly, bank transfers).

"I'm not sure what you mean about the new windows on separate screens issue, they are separate windows within the QB screen."

Within the QuickBooks screen is the problem. It's called a multiple document interface (which I think is a stupid name but I won't bother explaining why), and it means each [child] window is constrained by the boundaries of the parent window.

Shaun, like me, uses more than one physical screen attached to his computer - though I believe he does so more extensively than me. Generally, when I'm out and about I make do with the 15" screen on my laptop, but at home I mainly use my full HD 27" monitor, with the laptop screen ready for when I need the extra real estate. If I need to see the contents of two windows at the same time, I can sit them side by side on my screen. If I need to also see the contents of a third, and reducing the size of one isn't practical, onto the laptop screen it goes.

The QuickBooks/MDI approach doesn't lend itself to this, because the child windows are just that: child windows; they belong to the parent window, and remain inside it at all times.

(And what's worse is that the multiple document interface doesn't work well with Windows 7's 'snapping' either.)

I haven't looked at VT yet, mainly a time thing to be honest. How much does it cost?

 

Vince - The version I have on QB the batch entry transactions is brilliant and saves alot of time.  I guess they didn't put it in the Pro which is a shame as its a really good function.  I am still a fan of QB's I guess its what you are use to.  QB's is great once you get use to it, and so much easier than sage.  And costs less!!

-- Edited by Amanda on Tuesday 2nd of July 2013 09:23:14 AM

"(OMG, did I just defend Sage there!!!)"

At which point, someone possessed by a Sage-demon, and who has been locked in the cellar is able to open the hatch as far as the chains will allow, and screeches "Join us.... join us..."

-- Edited by VinceH on Tuesday 2nd of July 2013 11:24:37 AM

Amanda beat me to it.

While I still quite like QuickBooks, I've found myself recently looking back to VT for many smaller clients who really don't need the extra reporting of QuickBooks.

Maybe its a case of the grass always being greener, but VT did seem quicker for a lot of things.

Kris

Ah, okay - so it's quite simply not there in my version (Pro 2013) then.

Which makes it somewhat lacking, IMO, since if I want to use it I'm forced to use the one screen per transaction, where the screen is designed to be a virtual representation of the document. Either that or spend more money on software that never impressed me to start with. And that ain't gonna happen.

As I said before: QuickBooks can remain a part of my toolbox, and it may (or may not) be something I'll use for the occasional really small job that I might otherwise use a few small spreadsheets for.

I guess I ought to look at VT as well at some point. That sounds a lot better. :)

Hi Vince,

I don't think that it's worth upgrading to Premier or accountant editions just for the batch input as personally I don't think that feature has been particularly well implemented comparative to competitor offerings.

As its a limited feature to a few versions of the software though my suspicion is that its a work in progress and future releases will improve greatly on that feature for the likes of ourselves... After all, why have they tried to make the feature end user freindly when it's only available on the accountant dropdown for people who know what a credit and a debit is?

Personal view is that QB would be an able challenger to Sage for businesses that require detailed stock control and logistics.

VT definitely wins hands down for service industries, consultants, agencies, professionals (doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc) plus periodic clients (annual's quarterlies), etc.

Not saying that either product would not be able do the bookkeeping for the other types of business, just my feeling as to what fits best where.

Where QB really falls down for me is that you need something like VT in addition to QB in order to prepare a properly formatted set of accounts, tax calculations and apply iXBRL tagging so in a situation where you need to have both products there is an arguement to suggest that as VT can do it without third party software and QB cannot then if you really had to live without one of them...

I brought that issue up with Alison at the roadshow but the feeling that I got was that iXBRL tagging is not currently something that Intuit are looking into.

kind regards,

Shaun.

kjmcculloch83 wrote:

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QuickBooks Accountant being the one designed for and aimed at accountants, and the others being directly targeted at business.

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 I brought it up with Alison at the roadshow that if you call something an accountant edition you expect the software to be able to produce accounts but that isn't what Intuit mean by accountant edition.

It seems that their take on things is that its the version of the software that the accountant uses to look at / work with client files but it doesn't have the features that one would expect of a financial reporting package (as mentioned above, properly formatted final accounts, tax calculations, iXBRL tagging).

I can see how the batch entry screen is intended to help with volume entries but it feels to me as though its attempting to be end user freindly where those using it don't need that, they just want a simple date / account / credit / debit grid as per Vince's note above.

I can see a lot of good things in QB and feel that its an improvement over Sage (and not just because of the client tax) but its not quite joining all the dots the way that Sage and VT do (OMG, did I just defend Sage there!!!).

Actually, on that note, read a fact recently (From an Aweb report. It was quite old and cannot find an updated version of it) that 16% of accounts are filed using Sage software and 14% are filed using VT... Thats a lot closer than I expected those figures to be and probably reflects a lot of users of software such as QB using VT for filing (well, its a damn site cheaper than investing in IRIS).

kind regards,

Shaun.

VinceH wrote:

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"(OMG, did I just defend Sage there!!!)"

At which point, someone possessed by a Sage-demon, and who has been locked in the cellar is able to open the hatch as far as the chains will allow, and screeches "Join us.... join us..."

---

Ah, but I am in possession of the holy invoice of VT which all that you need to do is reveal the glorious light of its bottom line at the Sage users and they retreat back to the pit from whence they came.

Not quite as good as the holy hand grenade of Antioch but at least its multi use... And it needs to be as the Sage demons exist in huge numbers. Not only in bookkeepers and accountants but also in bank staff who with a smile push their wares on unsuspecting poor fledgling business owners who only realise that they are possessed when trying to strangle their monitor by its stand at 3 in the morning.

lol. I feel to Sage what Van Helsing is to vampires.

"Ah, but I am in possession of the holy invoice of VT"

Bah.

You should have said the holy books of account, or something. Then I could have said that'd be the necronominal ex-diurnalis.

 

I use multiple screens, too, and just resize QB so that I can then have multiple windows open in it.

For me, where QB comes into it's own is the adjustments and reconciliations. The customer and supplier centres are great when you've got lots of transactions and problems to deal with. It's where I think Xero really falls down (and Sage), I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that dealing with errors/queries/supplier reconciliations might take 10 times longer on those softwares than on QB (but again I haven't done it on VT so can't compare with that).

I agree it's a shame that there is no way of producing final accounts and tax returns in QB, although I find it quite comforting to manually enter the balances in VT for the final accounts, it's like a last check that nothing seems wrong.

Ah, if you are talking full service sollution

QB or VT transaction+ for bookkeeping. (I can see the merits of both but my personal favorite is VT)

VT Accounts for accounts production, tax calculations (its only good for the CT600 calculations and there is still a lot of manual intervention)

Taxcalc for tax filing (I'm currently living without this but it would make life easier to have it).

12pay or Moneysoft for Payroll (I use 12pay in a small way but for the most part tend to outsource payroll as I just can't be arsed with it (technical term))

Excel as a permanently open desktop scratchpad (sure I would be much faster with my desktop calculators if I didn't have Excel)

There is lots of other software to look at (including Sage, Andica, BTC, cloud offerings and countless others) that can be used instead of elements of the above but it should give you a general feel for the sort of software knowledge that you are going to be picking up and the realisation that there is no one software sollution fits all of our requirements and even if there was we probably wouldn't like the way that it worked compared to some other offering.

Taxcalc has also come out with its own accounting package which Mark (Marks) has adopted in combination with Sage for a more joined up sollution for bookkeeping, tax and accounts.

My solution is slightly different to Shaun, but starts off pretty much the same with VT Transaction or QB. I'm also just getting into this cloud stuff so maybe I should put QuickFile here too.

For final accounts production, as I only do sole traders, I couldn't justify VT Accounts so just knocked up an excel template. I use Andica for Self Assessments and have another great cloud offering for payroll. It's called MyPAYE, it's a bit more expensive than buying outright but is much quicker for the work I do.

I did try TaxCalc, but couldn't really get into it, and while BTC looked good I kept getting an error that even the developers couldn't figure out, so had to abandon it. Having said that I used Amphis Customer for my CRM and it has a similar feel to the CRM side of BTC.

Kris