I am hoping someone can help me, I am pretty sure I CAN NOT do this but I would like someone else's take on this please.
I was supposed to be helping a guy with his bookkeeping as he has to take to court 3 years worth of accounts and as he ignored his previous accountants he is now in the poo and too embarrassed to go back to them.
I contacted the previous accountants for him and they had said they had no paperwork for 2009/2010 just the previous years set of accounts which they had sent me, however there is no debtors or creditors breakdown, how would you suggest I clear this.
Secondly and this is the thing I think I am NOT allowed to do, the accountants have no paperwork they said relating to the 2009/2010 year and according to the guy he has nothing other than the bank statements I only have from him the beginning of his year end 2010/2011 to date and he has asked me to work from the bank statements. This however I feel I can not let him take to the court or run a SA on as there are no creditors or debtors without the actual hard paperwork - can I hear your thoughts please?
-- Edited by Taylor1 on Wednesday 10th of July 2013 06:20:11 PM
Oh my, sounds like you have a real mess to sort here. Firstly I would try to persuade this chap to stop being embarrassed as now is the time to get his head out of the sand as he is storing up more trouble and cost for himself if he doesnt - maybe a little hard talking is what is required here.
Secondly if the Accountants have the 2008/9 accounts then I am assuming they prepared them - need to ask them specifically if they did or not, because if they prepared these accounts then they MUST have the paperwork to back up the numbers and therefore the debtors and creditors breakdown. It may be that they are being awkward in supplying the info as he might not have paid them - worth plain speaking with them too and ask that question.
What is this chap saying he has done with all his paperwork for 2009/10? If you push him a bit more you might be surprised at what you can actually get from him. He really does need to understand the consequences of what he has and hasnt done! Does he do any of his business now/in the years you have information for in cash? If not then you may be able to get some historic information from his suppliers and customers although that would be for him to try to get (cap in hand, not getting embarrassed). Failing that the only thing you can do is provide some kind of information based on the entries via the Bank statements but absolutely make it clear (on the actual document) that these do not reflect the full true and accurate position of the business and that they have been prepared from the Bank statements only (and probably get something in writing so there is no comeback on you!!) then lets face it he will have to take his chances with the court and tax man and pay whatever fines he incurs - hopefully it will teach him a lesson!
Good luck (personally Im not sure I would have taken this guy on!)
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I have spoke to them to get the set of accounts they had completed that's how I have the opening balances not that there is much there and I had requested the breakdown of the debtors and creditors but they have not answered as of yet do you have any suggestions what to do? I haven't come across this before so excuse me if I am being a little dumb I have always had the breakdown so I can match the other side off .
The accountant said that they had been paid although they had to get court action to make him pay but is all paid up now, I have told him that maybe he is better off accepting the liability that HMRC think he owes at this stage but we have managed to find just a handful of invoices and the bank statements and that is it!
I didn't take him on with this knowledge I took it on with the understanding it was the past 2 years and ALL paperwork was here (2010/2011 & 2011/2012) it was only when the accountant got back from holiday a week after the agreement and half way through 2010/2011 accounts that I had been informed that actually they hadn't done 2009/2010 just the 09/10 tax return (his year end is July)
Thank you for the advise in covering myself I will definitely put on the document that it was prepared from the bank statements and I think I will write a letter that states this with his signature also. You have been most helpful and this has been really appreciated.
Hi again Im just sorry that I cannot help you more with this. With regards to the Accountants I would phone them and try to push some more for the numbers behind the accounts although because they had to push so much to be paid I do understand that they would not want to help. My understand from advice Ive gained via this website is that we only have to provide a trial balance to a customer (you have the final accounts equivalent) although most people are more helpful, but not if they struggled getting paid. So perhaps ask them firstly if they have the info behind the accounts and then ask what fee they would charge for giving you a full audit trail or more information (be honest and open with them as they may then feel sorry for you and want to help you, rather than him if that makes sense!). He would of course have to pay that fee for getting the workings.
Reckon your advise to take the fine from HMRC is probably the only way forward but at least you can show you tried.
The only other thing I would absolutely recommend - is that you also protect yourself in terms of getting a fee for all your work. If you tell him about how complex it is given he has lost everything and the problems he had with the Accountant andthe fact that he is now in court(!!) that you are looking for money up front to complete his work. So for example you could ask for £200 up front and when you have done £200 of billable hours stop and ask for more and dont do more than you are getting paid for, otherwise you may well find yourself in the same suituation as the last Accountant. I do hope not!!
Here's hoping you get it sorted.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I know this is few days old now, and I am wondering if I have answered a query about this work in another thread..?
I would ask for some money upfront too, and perhaps regular installments, as you complete more and more work. It sounds like a very big, very messy job.
-- Edited by FoxAccountancyServices on Sunday 14th of July 2013 11:40:52 PM