ICB Exemptions - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

ChrisA · Member

ICB Exemptions

matt123 · Senior Member

I found that I would have had to pay the exam fees for every exam I would have exemptions from (approx £300) if I had joined the ICB.

In the end I went with the IAB who gave me membership for £69.

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Hi Matt

Without being party to the conversation you have had with ICB I am just guessing but what I do know is you would not be expected to sit entrance papers for each level if you have been given exemption unless this was just for level 1? The fee of £48 is for student registration and all members need this, the other fee is of £96 would be for your MICB membership. The fees quoted to you are exam fees and they read as follows.

L1 Man £32 Home Exam
L2 Man £64 Centre Exam
L3 Man £85 Centre Exam
L2 Comp £37 Home Exam
L3 Comp £43 Home Exam
Payroll £43 Home Exam
Self-Assessment £43 Home Exam

Practicing License £82

At what level did ICB tell you that they would exempt you at? As explained if you were offered exemption at level 3 as far as I understand it you would have to sit the Level 3 entrance paper at £85 and would not have to sit the Level 1 and 2 Entrance papers. If you had not already signed up with AIB I would have suggested calling the ICB again just to clarify. ICB exams are a lot easier to access and are Ad Hoc, I know IAB of old had specific dates which may have changed now, I am sure Frauke will put us right on this. Regardless of the above you have made your choice of which body to be part of and I wish you well and every success with your studies and exams.

Dave

-- Edited by Dave Campbell on Thursday 12th of September 2013 08:37:45 AM

ChrisA · Member

matt123 wrote:
I found that I would have had to pay the exam fees for every exam I would have exemptions from (approx £300) if I had joined the ICB.

In the end I went with the IAB who gave me membership for £69.

Matt

Its very hard to find things on IAB website, I assume level 2 qualifications gives AIAB.

As an associate can you get practice licence and MLR certificate as you can with ICB.

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

ChrisA wrote:
I have recently received my OCR manual bookkeeping level 2 and C&G Computerised bookkeeping level 2,
Emailing ICB to see if this gives exemption at at level 1 I got the following reply.
"With the qualification certificates you have supplied you will be exempted from the Institutes Level 1 in Basic Bookkeeping. However in order to gain
this exemption you will have to complete the Institutes Membership Entrance Paper so it be quicker to complete the Level 1 in Basic Bookkeeping
Examination."
What is the point in granting exceptions if you have to take an exam anyway!

Hi Chris

If ICB are giving exemptions regardless of level you will still have to take an entrance paper to the level you are being offered exemption, even if you had been offered exemption at Level 3 you would have to sit a level 3 entrance paper and these are the same fee as the actual exam itself. As far as I was aware ICB did not recognise OCR and C and G anyway (unless I am mistaken) but as you are at Level 1 sitting the Level 1 entrance paper would have sufficed. It is also to be taken into account that a college certificate is not the same as a qualification gained by a recognised body like AAT, IAB and the likes and a college certificate syllabus can be a lot different to that of a body like the ICB and others.

Best of Luck

Dave

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

matt123 wrote:
I found that I would have had to pay the exam fees for every exam I would have exemptions from (approx £300) if I had joined the ICB.

In the end I went with the IAB who gave me membership for £69.

Hi Matt

The above statement is not correct, you would only have to pay for the entrance paper you were being given exemption for, so if given exemption for Level 1 for example you would be expected to take this paper £32 and then gain the qualifications for the other levels, so for AICB it would be £32 Level 1, £64 Level 2 man and £37 for Level 2 Comp.

Best of luck to you.

Dave

matt123 · Senior Member

I was told (by ICB) that there was £32, £37 + £43 for exam exemptions. £48 non refundable application fee, £96 membership fee = £256. If you wanted to practice there was an £88 fee on top.

matt123 · Senior Member

I think I've missed some computerised exam fees from that too.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Matt,

That surprises me that there is no practicing certificate with the IAB. Just ensuring that members are supervised for MLR.

Can anyone confirm that as I cannot see anything on the IAB site about it either.

All in all thats sounding as though IAB is a much cheaper route whilst still ensuring that members remain within a given skillset for the level that they are at.

I found this excellent page which seems to cover it all : www.iab.org.uk/how-to-become-a-bookkeeper

So, considering that what is the reason for people to go ICB rather than IAB?

Dave, James, Frauke (#1) feel free to join in as I think that Matt has a valid point in relation to cost.

all the best,

Shaun.

#1 Frauke would be a voice for the IAB, not ICB.

matt123 · Senior Member

I phoned up both and asked the full cost of practicing with AAT exemption. I've lost the piece of paper with the workings but it was approx £200 difference between the 2. I'm not sure of the costs via the exam route but I chose IAB just based on this £200 difference (which is a lot of money when starting out)

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Hi Matt

Just off the telephone to the ICB and it is you that is correct.

You are correct that you take 1 entrance paper which is free and then you have to pay the exemption fees for the levels you are being made expect from but you don't have to sit the exams. Your qualifications will be verified and it would be an ICB Panel who decide to what level you would be given exemption.

Not often I am wrong when it comes to the ICB but put my hands up to this one as I had no idea so thank you for teaching this old dog something.

All the best
Dave

-- Edited by Dave Campbell on Thursday 12th of September 2013 09:34:11 AM

matt123 · Senior Member

They said I would have to take 1 entrance paper but pay for each exam I am exempt from (so all those you listed). It was for level 3 membership (MICB I believe)

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Hi Matt

Well this is news to me but I am a mere course advisor and I am convinced you have misunderstood, however leave it with me I am going to call the ICB and find out for you, and for me for that matter.

Dave

matt123 · Senior Member

I'm a little confused Dave. Your post says I was incorrect and correct?

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

My Bad Matt post amended.

Dave

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Sounds the same as the ACCA in that exemptions are in the form of guaranteed passes.

James did say quite some time ago that the ICB rulebook was made up from an amalgamation of rules of other bodies.

Thankfully they decided not to adopt ACCA regulation 8, lol.

I suppose that the other good thing about Matt going down the IAB route (appart from saving on exemption fee's) is that if he wants to move up the ladder later then IAB is recognised for some exemptions from the likes of the ACCA professional qualification where the ICB qualification is not recognised (Just put your body / country / qualification in here to see what you can get : portal.accaglobal.com/accrweb/faces/page/public/accreditations/enquiry/main/EnqInstitutionsTable.jspx).

Don't think that the IAB - IFA link is quite as incestuous as it once was (sharing key management personel) but I believe that it is still close and there is a stepping stone over from bookkeeping to accountancy with an IFAC recognised professional accounting body there for any that want to take it (bit like someone left the back door into accountancy slightly ajar).

I think that the IAB could really do with someone like Garry Carter back in the fold (but someone less prone to going off and setting up a competitor organisation) as for an established qualification they don't seem to be doing a great job of tieing in training providers to push the qualification which seems to me is where the ICB have won market share.

Seems to me a bit like when IBM thought that they were above competition when they pretty much created the new kids on the block... Microsoft and Intel!... Oh God, don't tell james that I just likened the ICB to Microsoft or Intel. There'll be no hearing the end of it, lol.

matt123 · Senior Member

I am AAT qualified so the only reason I wanted to go to IAB was for the practicing certificate/supervision or whatever it's called. It's a similar cost to going direct with HMRC so I thought it would be more beneficial going with an organisation and will look a tad better to clients. I only work part time with an accountant therefore have not built up the 1 year full time experience AAT require. Will take me 2/3 years at the rate im doing as I mostly do 2 days a week accounting work.

How would I take a step to IFA Shamus? What will be required?

ICBUK · Guru

Hello all,

I will try and keep this short but I am answering a few questions here:

You pay for the examinations you are getting exempt from, same as ICAEW, ACCA etc. So if you are only getting exempt from Level 1 that is an exemption fee of £32 + the application fee of £48 + Affiliate membership of £54 = £134 for your first year.

If you are getting exempt from a higher level then the fees will be higher.

ICB and AAT follow pretty much the same pattern in terms of exemptions and fees, apart from ICB gives free MLR cover saving you £85 and ICB membership is slightly cheaper than AAT.

IAB does give membership without any tests, so is easier to join than ICB and AAT, and is quite a bit cheaper than both.

Don't be confused between membership and qualifications. You wont get any exemptions based on membership, but if you were thinking of continuing your study into the chartered bodies I would recommend AAT, although it is possible via ICB and many do progress this way due to flexibility and cost, it is more established via AAT, but don't think you will hit a dead end with ICB.

Why do people pay more for ICB or AAT? Well I would say the ICB gives far more support than the other two, definitely for self employed and those running a practice. The ICB in my opinion has much more relevant benefits. In terms of meetings/events I think the ICB and AAT are matched, the IAB as far as I can see don't actually have any meetings, although they list them on their site they are held/organised by other bodies.

Shaun, thanks for the likening, duly noted ;)

NickCraggs · Guru

ICBUK wrote:
Hello all,
I will try and keep this short but I am answering a few questions here:
You pay for the examinations you are getting exempt from, same as ICAEW, ACCA etc. So if you are only getting exempt from Level 1 that is an exemption fee of £32 + the application fee of £48 + Affiliate membership of £54 = £134 for your first year.
If you are getting exempt from a higher level then the fees will be higher.
ICB and AAT follow pretty much the same pattern in terms of exemptions and fees, apart from ICB gives free MLR cover saving you £85 and ICB membership is slightly cheaper than AAT.
IAB does give membership without any tests, so is easier to join than ICB and AAT, and is quite a bit cheaper than both.

Don't be confused between membership and qualifications. You wont get any exemptions based on membership, but if you were thinking of continuing your study into the chartered bodies I would recommend AAT, although it is possible via ICB and many do progress this way due to flexibility and cost, it is more established via AAT, but don't think you will hit a dead end with ICB.

Why do people pay more for ICB or AAT? Well I would say the ICB gives far more support than the other two, definitely for self employed and those running a practice. The ICB in my opinion has much more relevant benefits. In terms of meetings/events I think the ICB and AAT are matched, the IAB as far as I can see don't actually have any meetings, although they list them on their site they are held/organised by other bodies.

Shaun, thanks for the likening, duly noted ;)

Hi James,

The AAT do not charge for exemptions, you can start at any level without paying any fees. It is at the training providers discretion. For example, I have this morning been passed a new student enrolment form from a guy who has an MBA in accountancy. He is starting at level 4, but he doesn't have to pay exemptions from levels 1, 2, and 3.

As for going further if you do the AAT you will get exemptions from the F1, F2 and F3 in ACCA. You will get up to 4 exemptions from ICAEW exams, depending on which optional units you have taken. And you get exemption from the certificate level which you need to do to start to study CIMA.

It is my understanding that you get one exemption from ACCA with IAB, ICAEW wont give you an exemption with IAB nor will CIMA. And i am prepared to be corrected but i have never heard of anyone getting an exemption from ACCA, CIMA or ICAEW with the ICB, but if they have i would love to be proved wrong.

Nick

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Nick,

My apologies I thought they did.

Yes you can get exemptions with ICB to the other bodies, but it is a case of applying to the body rather than via the college or straight forward joining.

The ICB has never really gone down the route of exemptions into other bodies as it was set-up to be for bookkeepers only, and was set-up specifically to promote the profession rather than being a 'through-body' that just trained junior accountants. Therefore it has almost on purpose never sought exemptions from the chartered bodies.

However, in the last 5 years as the ICB name has grown, more people who want to become an accountant are looking to ICB instead of AAT. Also many firms of accountants are looking at ICB to training their new staff. This has meant ICB is getting enquiries from people who want to become an accountant and actually need the 'through-body' option.

This is why the new syllabus which is to be released at some point next year is more in line with the other bodies, more unitised, making it easier to progress/swap between bodies.

It is kinda expanding it's original plan, but as this forum points out, even if someone has no intention of becoming an accountant, they quite like the option should they desire later in life :)

NickCraggs · Guru

ICBUK wrote:

However, in the last 5 years as the ICB name has grown, more people who want to become an accountant are looking to ICB instead of AAT.

Hi James,

I hate to be picky but I am not sure what you say is 100% correct.

Nick

matt123 · Senior Member

Have to agreed. Look on the job sites. The government job site has 4 jobs asking for ICB qualification whereas AAT it has over 1000...

matt123 · Senior Member

Further to that - it seems 1000 is the maximum amount of jobs it will show so it could be a lot more than 1000...and probably is.

ICBUK · Guru

Well you can't technically disagree, as if in 2000 it was 0 and in 2012 it was 1.... :)

But really it is happening more and more. We did have a nice video of a selection of Chartered Accountants who use ICB now, but unfortunately our YouTube does not seem to be working :/

However, this is an article on a firm working with ICB: http://www.bookkeepers.org.uk/News/1255

Also a quick check of the first 3 pages on the ICB's job site and I can see at least 5 firms posting for ICB members.

ICBUK · Guru

But like I said, ICB is being 'pulled' into this market, it is not one it is actively advertising for.

Next year with the new syllabus and ICB actually approaching the other bodies I think it will only become more common, and therefore easier and more straight forward to move from ICB -> ACCA etc.

Hal · Veteran Member

At present if you look on the accounting and recruitment sites AAT is far more in demand than ICB for employed posts.

But if the ICB is able to make significant in-roads into this area then all credit to them.

Hal FFA FFTA MAAT

NickCraggs · Guru

ICBUK wrote:
Well you can't technically disagree, as if in 2000 it was 0 and in 2012 it was 1.... :)

Hi James,

well in that case, I disagree completely. I have no facts for figures, but I am willing to bet my mortgage that more people who want to become accountants choose the AAT over the ICB. In fact, I would say many, many times more.

I agree that ICB has become far more recognised over the last far years, but it still has a long way to go to be as recognised as the AAT by employers (as shown by Matt123), and other awarding bodies. But more competition in the market place can only be a good thing.

Nick

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Nick,

Ah, I see the confusion, sorry for my bad wording:

My sentence "more people who want to become an accountant are looking to ICB instead of AAT"

should read "in the last 5 years more people are considering ICB instead of AAT to begin their path into accountancy"

In other words, compared with 5 years ago, more people who want to be an accountant are joining and using ICB as a training/qualification body only and not membership or becoming a bookkeeper.

I did state: "but if you were thinking of continuing your study into the chartered bodies I would recommend AAT"

So I am not trying to put ICB above AAT or anything for this route, just saying it is becoming more popular and this is why ICB is changing/tweaking things.

biggrin

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

matt123 wrote:
The government job site has 4 jobs asking for ICB qualification whereas AAT it has over 1000...

Same story with Reed.

Almost across the board its AAT or PQ.

3,356 bookkeeper / accounts assistant jobs advertised in the last six days... One of them mentions ICB and the Reed website asked me if I had made a spelling mistake and I meant ICT.

Interesting that the ICB is looking at the accounts market.

Does this follow the same logic as Crunchers that moved out of Bookkeeping when they realised that the only money in it was where the bookkeeper was a cheaper accountant?

Does this move mean that the ICB will be adopting (and enforcing) the IFAC ethical code for practicing accountants?

Not going to bite on the ACCA line or I would be here all day typing away.

Suffice to say though that at the moment the ICB have a niche market making themselves pretty much the first port of call for the newly redundant to retrain to bookkeeping (and over the last few years there have been plenty of redundancies resulting in thousands of people looking to retrain quickly and cheaply for which ICB has been perfect). I think to try and move up market would not end well for the ICB as you would be going from market leader position to newboy in an established market.

I genuinely wis you the best in your efforts but just want to say that you should be careful of what you give up in the attempt to achieve what you think that you want.

Shaun.

ChrisA · Member

I seem to have stirred up a real hornets nest here.

After looking at IAB again, who would have given me associate membership with my existing qualifications, there is no easy way of taking level 3 and above exams.

So I am now an ICB student member and looking at level 1 past papers.

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Shaun,

Never said ICB was moving out of the bookkeeping market smile

No, just that there is a growing demand for ICB from those who wish to become accountants, or firms of accountants who want to train new staff.

The ICB has never really even acknowledged this until the last couple of years.

Definitely going to stick with current market as like you say, it is what the ICB is best at, and what it was formed to serve/promote.