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Post Info TOPIC: errors by previous bookkeeper, how to eliminate them
Hal


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errors by previous bookkeeper, how to eliminate them
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Yep they do


According to Google anyway


 Hal MAAT FFA FFTA



-- Edited by Hal on Friday 20th of September 2013 11:01:43 AM

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Hal


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I have taken on a new client whose previous bookkeeper was dodgy.  He was on a fixed fee and didn't care, he just wanted to get the work done and get out of there (fixed fee work is obviously a disadvantage for the client in this case!) so he basically made a lot of it up eg reconciled the bank to fit the numbers in the software rather than the number on the bank statement (then did dodgy journals to get it to match the bank statement at the end of the year), didn't put correct VAT codes in for many things, didn't set up a credit card, ignored half the paypal transactions etc.  I can fix the VAT and a lot of the other stuff but there are about 20 outstanding bills from last year which are still outstanding according to the software when in actual fact they were paid months ago.  I have re-entered all transactions from the start of this financial year and have reconciled the bank but these are still sitting there showing as unpaid.  What is the correct way to get rid of them?  Thanks.



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What a challenge!
This won't be a complete answer, but a place to start - then you should be able to follow through when you have done some investigating
First - has the accountant picked up these errors and adjusted for them already? If so, you should simply be able to clear the items with the opening balance adjustment journals. There's no point in you doing this work if the accountant has already done it, so this would be my first step.
Next, I think it's always helpful to find out what happened in real life - ie were these invoices really paid?when and how? Then find out what the bookkeeper did instead of recording the true picture.
1) Are the invoices duplicate postings?
2) Are the invoices valid?
3) Are there missing credit notes?
The supplier statement will help with all of the above, although you might need to go back to the supplier and request full statements or activity reports.
The above should give you some confidence that costs were accurate in last year's P&L.

Based on what you have told us, it seems likely that he has failed to record the payments. You say that he posted some journals to correct the bank account balances. Have a look at were the other side of the adjustment journal was posted. If this was just one or two isolated incidences it would be easy to untangle, but without full notes you will struggle, although you might find that a pattern emerges. At this stage you should try to make sure that the balance sheet is correct. It sounds as if the bank balances may have been correct in the TB when the year was closed, but the "dodgy" journals would have created balances elsewhere. Where are these balances? Have they affected the final accounts for last year? What has the accountant done with these fictitious balances?

As I say, this isn't a complete answer to your question, but I think that when you have a clear idea of what has happened, you will start to see how you can correct it.


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Sheelagh Lyons Bookkeeping Clarity Making Bookkeeping Clearer

The answers I provide are meant as a general guide only and do not constitute advice. 



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Excellent answer Sheelagh, I was only going to start with suggesting that if bank is now reconciled find out how these invoices were paid which you have also covered.

Unravelling someone else's mess is often harder than starting from scratch but it is usually the client's attempts and it is a real pity when they have spent money and invested trust in incompetent professionals.

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Rob
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Another vote for starting from scratch here.

I do it regularly for young businesses and for older ones quite often redo the previous years books which at least puts me on top of the real position with the accruals and prepayments (#1) which invariably I find to be the area that many bookkeepers have found difficult (and the one area where I cannot see why people find the concept difficult to grasp).

kind regards,

Shaun.

#1 unless you start from scratch you cannot guarantee correctness of the historic data held in the books but one has to start somewhere and the accountant / previous accountant has already had two opportunities at getting those right so if they're not then I have to adopt the position of "thats my problem how?".... lol. wonder if that will catch on like "There or there abouts?"(tm).

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Shaun

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Whilst I hear where you're all coming from I have persuaded them to let me start from Feb onwards again which is the start of their financial year, I'm not sure they would want to pay for me to do another year. This particular bookkeeper is familiar to me as I did some work for him when I was starting out but after a few weeks I realised how dodgy he was and stopped. I've taken over other clients from him and his work is shoddy through and through. There was an end of year journal last year which included a number of different accounts, probably 20 in all in order to cover up his mistakes. He's done the bookkeeping for a few years so I could go back and back and would probably just find more errors. The accountant has done the accounts based on what the bookkeeper gave them and has not looked into anything and the directors obviously didn't look at it closely enough to realise that of course they have paid invoices that are nearly a year old. There was too much trust I think. Some of them are regular advertising so there would have been many invoices from the same company. Maybe it was entered twice, who knows. I guess I could leave them in there and let the accountant deal with it but I would prefer to adjust accordingly and let them know what I've done and why.

So, assuming I can't find the problem, how do I get rid of them?!

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"errors by previous bookkeeper, how to eliminate them"

I find a nice double barrel bolt action rifle helps :)

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lol.

You just caused nescafe nasal spray over my keyboard (Urghhh.... Just swap that keyboard for another one.... Right, back with you (Ooh, springy keys))

concur with the principle but do they actually make double barrel bolt action rifles?



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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.

Hal


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Sure there are less "messy" ways to resolve it though....



Hal MAAT FFA FFTA

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Hal


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Well, you learn something new everyday. Cheers Hal.

Personally I think that job needs an AK 74... To quote Samuel L Jacksons character in Jackie Brown "If you've absolutely positively got to kill ever Mother f****r in the room, accept no substitute".



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Shaun

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Haha! Brilliant quote, Sean!

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I do have another client who has recently bought something in a gun shop. I must ask her what it was...

Now. Back to how I get rid of these transactions...?!

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Tick up the bank, identify the "adjustments" on Sage and try to link them up to non ticked bank items - then go through, and correct as necessary. I would vote for Sean's advice of start again though.. It could be quicker?

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Starting again would mean several years of bookkeeping. I have the old guy's quickbooks file but there are so many errors in it that it's not usable. I have started again from the start of their financial year but it's the previous year's stuff I'm having to deal with. If I do the previous year I suspect there will be stuff from the year before. I will find a way...

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But in these sort of instances where it is not viable to go back to the start of the business does it not make sense to go back one year and take the signed off set of books from then as your base start point then redo the previous periods books so that you have a firm basis upon which to build your new year.

You need to ensure that you have a clause in your engagement letter where the client accepts full responsibility for the information in the signed off accounts that you are using as a basis and you cannot be expec ted to have responsibility for books over which you had no input.

When you have reprocessed the previous period you will need to talk to the accountant about the reality compared to the signed off accounts that have already been filed.

Once you have firm foundations moving forwards you will have total control over the clients books which I am positibve that in your good hands will be squeaky clean and six years down the line the client can breath a sigh of relief that any former unnoticed indiscretions by the previous bookkeeper will to all intent and purpose disappear.

Personally I would say that a good 80% of clients who come to me I end up redoing their previous years accounts (often at my own expense) as I want to know such things as :

1) How much trust I can put in the figures that they give me
2) How their business works (supply chain from manufacture to delivery)
3) Consider Business risks facing the client
4) Understand the ownership and identify related parties
5) Get a grasp of the day to day operations of the business and how and when transactions are recorded
6) Consider Industry specific issues that may face the client
7) Look at the regulatory environment specific to the clients business
8) Consider the entities internal controls and information systems and consider whether such prevent issues from occuring
9) How is the business financed
10) What is the businesses financial performance like compared to its own history and to comparable businesses
11) How is the business structured? What is the operating form?
12) What are the businesses objectives?
13) Is there any pending litigation against the business?
14) what is their attitude towards making payment to suppliers (immediate/30 days/when goes to court! (avoid those ones!!!))

There are other factors that I am looking for but that gives the general reasoning behind why I think that almost always going back one period is advantageous as to me it seems the only way to properly understand the clients business.

Of course, at worst my clients tend to have no more thasn a few hundred transactions per year. if they had thousands of small transactions I would not be so happy about adopting that approach

Anyway, thats just my approach and others have different ones.

kind regards,

Shaun.



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Shaun

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The engagement letter is sorted, no worries there. The accountant thought the bookkeeper was dodgy but did the accounts from his figures anyway. I suspect the directors wouldn't have known whether the figures were right or not given the amount of surprise when I've shown them what the last guy did. The directors are being open to my suggestions on how to move forwards so at least that's something. There are probably too many small transactions going back to make it worthwhile doing the previous year and the paperwork isn't there (that's another story). I will make some adjustments, tell the accountant what I've done and then he can advise the clients on what to do. They are already a bit annoyed that they are having to pay me to do all of this year when they have already paid someone else to do it (not annoyed with me, the old guy). I really wish someone would do something about him as it's not the first time I've taken one of his clients on and I'm sure other people locally are in the same situation. What amazes me is that he's happy to send over his files for us to see his mistakes so he doesn't even bother to hide it!

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One has to wonder then if he realises that he is making mistakes?

I think that there will always be issues between two accountancy firms or two bookkeeping practices in that nobody does things in exactly the same way unless they have acquired their skills under the same mentor.

I know that I very often end up having to break down bank entries in the reconcilliation which would give other book-keepers nightmares over such not being a straight ticking excercise.

The key is though that regardless as to whether we agree with each others approaches we know that we are doing it correctly and doing a good job for our clients.

Where it crosses the line is where a bookkeeper starts making figures up to make things balance or just using figures because they are a similar amount to what they are looking for, or even missing figures because they do not fit.

In such instances I would be surely tempted to report the bookkeeper concerned to their professional body for gross negligence.

You would hope that in such instances the reporting would result in at least enforced retraining or review of the quality of the practicioners ongoing CPD but somehow I feel that action is not taken as often as it should be against sub standard practices.

And of course there are a good many out there who have no professional body to report them to.


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Shaun

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Lol. Nearly fell off my chair. Professional body. If only! As far as I know he has no qualifications, no professional body, no insurance, no money laundering, no letters of engagement etc.

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