I have a new customer who sells via their own website but is also starting selling through Amazon and Ebay.
At the moment I only see the sales on the Bank statement which is clearly not sufficient. My customer is VAT registered - do Amazon and Ebay provide breakdowns of all sales and then splits between VAT and postage costs so that I can calculate what the sales are, or information in some kind of format and how often is this information supplied to the customer?
For their own website sales - would drawing up some kind of spreadsheet showing the breakdown between sales price/VAT and postage suffice for doing the bookkeeping work? Or does anyone have any ideas of a good system they should be using?
One last thing - if they sell their product to other countries do they add VAT as usual?
They sell clothing and footwear to adults and children (I know the latter is zero rated so need to be able to distinguish between the two types of sales)
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I find the best thing to do, is ask the client to set you up with a Paypal Admin log in. With this, you can access the account without having any access to personal details. This allows you to navigate to the "Monthly Financial Summary" (History/Reports is the usual route) which will give you the aggregate sales and fees for the month. It will also give you a total for purchases, and allow you to click into this figure, to see the breakdown.
You can ask the client to give you a CSV but it contains a lot of contra information, which I find frustrating to look at.
If you rename the sage "building society account" (assuming its not used), you can print off the monthly summary, and post the sales and fees as bank receipts, then you will have transfers to your bank current account, and also bank payments for purchases. I usually write the purchase breakdown on the back, so I have a record on my file.
It gets a bit more complicated when foreign transactions are brought into the equation, but that should get you started :)
It may be that, to make this all tie in with the standard/zero purchases, you get the client doing a spreadsheet, the total of which, you post as a sales invoice, and then post any Paypal income as customer receipts. It depends on what will work best for you and the client. Some clients prefer to have two separate sales list, some dont.
Hope this helps
Michelle
-- Edited by FoxAccountancyServices on Monday 23rd of September 2013 07:47:16 AM
Regards charging VAT on overseas sales.. this isn't necessarily a straight forward answer, without some more details..
Which countries are the sales made to?
Are the sales to normal consumers, or VAT registered businesses?
If its just general public sales within the EU, yes you will calculate VAT within the sales prices.
Outside the EU, no VAT charged.
If selling wholesale, let me know.
Significant sales would mean registering in the country of supply - when you get over 30k euros in any country, let me know. Different countries have different registration levels.
You might want to do a little research on the Mini One Stop Shop - a new VAT thingymabob that is coming into effect in 2015. Helps to know about it, just in case :)
Thank you once again for such a detailed response.
My customer has just set up his paypal and Amazon accounts which I only found out about this weekend when I was trying to wade through and reconcile his Bank account - I am waiting for a call back from him so I can ask the questions about where he sells in more detail as when I originally asked it was purely retail through a store! So watch this space - I will be back (now thinking of Arnie as well as Bez - going to be mad day!)
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I MUST tell my face Im jolly!!! Im just back on the caffeine and panic as far too much to do and complicated by not having a clue today! Kick off your bread shoes???? Do Sunblest even exist any more? Sounds like you are on something good today Mrs!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hi Michelle,
I'd never heard the ruling about having to register for vat in the other country if a certain threshold is met, is this just for non vat registered clients in the EU? And is the threshold applied to individual customers or across the board? Thanks,
Rob
My understanding is still being developed, but after talking with an international VAT bod, if you have a certain level of sales in a particular country, you have to register in that country. The level varies.
The middle columns of this form are what I believe gives the threshold
Hi Rob/Michelle
I seem to recall seeing something about registering in different countries if you get near their thresholds - Ive never had a customer that was dealing in those kind of levels so (very badly) didnt take it in too much! Now regretting it though! lol
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Just been given a reprieve - my customer is away until Friday, so will email him the questions and meet with him then for an update. Mind you that gives me less time to sort his VAT out then (so hoping I have all the info)
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I was discussing an Amazon trader at the time, this all came out. He makes sales to the EU (France and Germany) in quite considerable levels and it is considered that they are the general consumer. At the moment, we have to claim 20% within the sales price as UK VAT.
The general gist is the other country doesn't like this, because why should the UK government make VAT, when its their country making the purchase.
As I understand it, the Mini One Stop Shop allows traders selling to multiple countries to do one return for the lot. There is some benefit to be made by carefully VAT tax planning here.. so that you set your prices, to be competitive, yet gaining the best VAT possible. Sorry not to say anything more technical on that. I am not there myself just yet!
Hi Rob/Michelle I seem to recall seeing something about registering in different countries if you get near their thresholds - Ive never had a customer that was dealing in those kind of levels so (very badly) didnt take it in too much! Now regretting it though! lol
Don't regret! Its an opportunity to learn :)
It does my head in, but I will feel better for it once I get my head round it.
Ps.. I am sure the guy said that in the EU, ALL business have a VAT number, there isn't a threshold for registration, like here. Dont take that as read, though
Hi Michelle, I'd never heard the ruling about having to register for vat in the other country if a certain threshold is met, is this just for non vat registered clients in the EU? And is the threshold applied to individual customers or across the board? Thanks, Rob
Trading via Amason/ ebay is a distance selling. Here is a link to EC website which takes you to the info on distance selling:
Hi Frustratingly my customer has not (yet) given me access rights to his Paypal/Amazon logins. Instead he has this morning sent me two documents, which I think do not give enough detail.
Whilst his first VAT return is due, fortunately there are not too many transactions on there yet as he is a newco, so maybe I will be able to sort him out!! But for now I have a couple of questions:-
Amazon I have a list of transactions with the following headings
eg against an ''order payment'' Total product charges £99.00 Amazon fees - £17.94 Other £4.99 Total £86.05. So would I be right in saying - the item was for sale at £99 (so I should include this in my sales figure and T1 it (they are VAT reg!), then £17.94 to Amazon charges nominal code and £4.99 - what would this be for - income to cover postage?? (Which nominal code would I use and would this be T1 too, with related cost at T0 of course?).
With the above charges and also their Service/subscription fees - would these normally be Vatable - how would I get the VAT invoice from Amazon.
At least with Amazon I can see if they are Adults or Childrens items to determine the VAT on sale (they sell footwear and clothing to childrens is VAT 0%)
Paypal
I have a transaction history report. Not impressed!!!!! This does NOT show what has been bought/sold and i have no invoices so have no idea what has been bought/sold and what VAT to pay/reclaim and Michelle says has contras all over the place. I have a lot of:-
Payment received/completed lines which look like money (less charges) for sales to customers?
Paypal Express Checkout Payment Sent (completed) items - showing minus figures, with no fees deducted. These look like my customer has been buying from suppliers?
Order/completed £5.20 a minus figure, no fees mentioned, only a gross figure and no net mentioned??
so can ignore?
Pending balance payment status placed - £5.2 a minus figure, no fees mentioned??
Pending balance status removed £5.20 (plus), no fees mentioned??
Paypal Express checkout Payment Sent/completed for this same £5.20 - minus figure again??? Have the last four got something to do with each other potentially?? (ALL the ID's are different so Im thinking not!!)
aaagggghhhhhh I hope you can help.
Huge thanks in Advance
PS - Michelle - did you have a great day as expected yesterday? Hope there isnt much of a hangover, if any!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Aw Joanne! Why you ask such long questions when I am hungoverrrrrr??! Just kidding , poppet!
Sounds like its £99 sale of stock plus £4.99 shipping recharge (both T1, calc net - unless kids clothing (T0) then only calc VAT on postage) with a cost of £17.94 (T24 as I understand it)
You could post the £4.99 to 4001 if you want to keep it separate. I use the sales commissions code for amazon charges.
I need a break now, I'll get a coffee and be back for the Paypal extravaganza!! ;0)
Sounds like its £99 sale of stock plus £4.99 shipping recharge (both T1, calc net - unless kids clothing (T0) then only calc VAT on postage) with a cost of £17.94 (T24 as I understand it) ------------------------------------------------
Hi Michelle
Sorry for the brainache! Quick question - what is the T24 you mention above?
Re Paypal - I know he has an EBAY business site, so Im assuming (I know I shouldnt assume, but he isnt around at the mo to ask!!) - that the sales are from there. Maybe also from his new website (although maybe not!?!?!) I have noooooo idea about his purchases.
He needs training up to be 'bookkeeper' compliant!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
You need to go to the source of the sales for a split of the kids/adults. Paypal is just a bank account, remember. Sounds like you may need to set up an Ebay bank account on sage, post cash receipts for sales, then show transfers to paypal using the monthly summary.
T24 is reverse charge mechanism code so you get figures in box 1, 4, 6 and 7 that all net off against each other.
I am hoping that the VAT return is due an upgrade soon, its needs more boxes in my opinion.
Thank you for your help - fortunately most of the paypal stuff is relating to next quarters VAT so I have time to sort with him!
Ive never come across the T24 thing before - IN sage configuration editor - do I need to mark this tax code line as 20%? Would I use this code for anything else? So - I assume you are saying also that I will not get Amazon invoices but thats ok as I have this transactions list?
I will hopefully stop mithering then today.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Just come across something else that is just a wee bit weird......some of the money seems to be in their Bank account BEFORE it shows up on the Amazon transaction list
Bank account - paid in £11.56 on 8 July Amazon list - shows on 13 Aug
Bank account - paid in £9.08 on 5 August Amazon list - shows on 27 July
Im guessing this was perhaps because Amazon didnt have the Bank details for the first transaction - but just wanted to make sure this didnt happen to anyone else on a regular basis - what a nightmare if it did!!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
The birthday drinking continues.. think I am getting too old for this malarky, but only two more nights to go!
Not sure whats happened with Amazon. That's very strange. I would have said something of the same value was sold at an earlier date, but I am not sure what information you have been given and whether you can see that nothing is missing?
Subscriptions wont have claimable VAT, cos tjhe company is, I think, in Luxembourg... but you can give them your VAT number and they wont charge it to you any more. Think you then post as T4.
Hi
I think I need to see what they have reporting on Amazon itself so am going to suggest they let me sit with them at their PC next time we meet!!
I did a bit of checking as yes Amazon pay Luxembourg VAT rates which are 15% so will have to use that as my re-charge rate in T24 (im guessing).
For keying Amazon stuff - do you normally do this through 'customer' tab and do invoices for sales and CNs for charges or via some other method?
By the way Michelle - wait until you get to 50 then you might just be a wee bit too old for all that drinking. Im not quite there yet although the first of my old school friends had her 50th party last week and we had the pre party party; the party and the post party party, although most definatly too old for clubbing - dodgy dancing to 80s music at a house party is where I drew the line! So - enjoy the third night of partying.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I usually post amazon based on the fortnightly statement, posting through an Amazon cash account (CR and CP), which then clears to NIL when you transfer the bank receipt that actually comes in..
12 years to go til 50... though, I think if I can do it on my 40th I'll be impressed!! LOL!!
Hi Michelle
Well thats just made me feel older than I usually do (not helped by a bloomin rotten day!), although it was my own fault for mentioning my age, haha. You have plenty of practice time before the big 40 (and just book some time off immediately afterwards then no-one will know if you look bad!!)
Thanks for the help though - Ive done the Amazon bit as you suggest!
This customer is driving me crazy!!! As does HMRC with the import side - aaaggghhhh.
I need an overload of sugar and caffeine.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Aw no, sorry to hear you are having a poo day :( My brain is also frazzled. I have not done half what I was supposed to, today, despite being sat here since 8.30am. Mainly because the client left it ((months)) before passing me the information, and now I am reliving it all and trying to remember where I was up to and what I was thinking...
Likewise - sounds like you have the same day as me, or Ive had the same day as you. Frazzled - tick. Not done 1/2 - tick. cleint - double and treble tick. Oh but I do have milk so if you fancy calling round for a brew.....
Or just hit the wine! It is supposed to be 'hometime' - whats that then.
Im on hold for HMRC - KILL ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Regards charging VAT on overseas sales.. this isn't necessarily a straight forward answer, without some more details..
Which countries are the sales made to? Are the sales to normal consumers, or VAT registered businesses?
If its just general public sales within the EU, yes you will calculate VAT within the sales prices. Outside the EU, no VAT charged.
If selling wholesale, let me know. -----------------------------------------------------------
Hi again
Customer advised yesterday that they are indeed selling wholesale - to UK companies and abroad - they start with a Spanish company next week.
So for this I understand they would need to do the EC Sales Lists - they need the buyers VAT number, need to verify it and then they do NOT add VAT on the invoice and the invoices are keyed on sage as T4 at a nil rate so they appear in Box 8 of VAT return?
What happens if their wholesale customer is not VAT registered?
If it is outside the EU then VAT does not apply so is just ignored?
Thanks
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
You should not include in Box 8 the value of goods supplied to customers (including private individuals) who are not registered for VAT where you have not exceeded the 'distance selling' threshold. Each EU country can set its own distance selling threshold which at present must be roughly the equivalent of either 35,000 or 100,000.
Thank you for both answers! Im just having a quick read on Intrastat - well I got to the £250k limit and realised I do not need it just yet (but have favourited the link as I have a feeling I might be needing that one soon too).
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I have been round in circles perfecting the VAT accountting process for my own ebay/Amazon business. To sort out the mess and fix it once and for all, I have developed some software that does it all for you. << removed by moderator >> will take care of domestic and international VAT liabilities automatically by downloading every single sale/refund transaction and assigning it correctly.
Please check out this blog...
<< removed by moderator >>
Many Thanks
Gurpreet
<< removed by moderator >>
-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 16th of August 2015 01:48:03 PM
Forgive me if I am wrong but your product simply collates, sorts, reformats, does a currency translation and provides management reporting in an easier to handle format than people are used to rather than actually automating the actual complexities of dealing with interstate reporting, i.e. under MOSS.
You can explain your product here and how it handles automatic cross border reporting within and outside the EU and how it interacts with the various country specific reporting portals but those links that you posted were not good. Neither of them were approved by Norton (although neither was marketd as dangerous either). Your main site was simply a front screen that pointed to the blog site and the blog site was a thinly disguised advert, not a discussion. The GSS site is not identified by Google at all so unable to check that against my antivirus software and hence I would not advise anyone to use that blind link.
In addition to the above the software is marked as Beta so anyone using it would be Beta testers for software that if it gets international VAT wrong would prove expensive by way of fines, interest, penalties and surcharges. Thats not saying that your software is wrong, I'm saying that it's not an area that one would want to be using beta test software for.
All links have been removed pending an detailed explanation by yourself of what this software actually does to make cross border reporting automatic no matter which country you are reporting from and in relation to (beware, we have excellent bullshit detectors).
Go...
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Strange reading an old thread especially when Im almost in the same position with said client as I was then....I still dont get the reports I need, unless I ask about 6 times (even when I send a 'how to' guide and a picture of the last correct report! You have to love this profession!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I have several clients with amazons shops. They have set up a separate access for me to their accounts, and I can get my own reports directly via my Amazon account which linked automatically.
One of these clients is registered for VAT MOSS - so I have a separate "customer" account for each EU country which I post all the sales for each period to. They turnover £20-£30k a month, which includes a PayPal account, which I also have my own login for. The ave. sale is only £10 so there are over 100 transaction a day from all over the world. Last month it included a 79p sale to a customer in Romania!
By having my own access to their records (I cannot do transactions, just access the reports etc), their accounts are updated every month and never more than 3 weeks behind. I also have ECSL to report for them too.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Sunday 23rd of August 2015 02:59:34 PM
I suggested access to my client months and months ago - even said that I couldnt do anything other than get the correct reports which would mean I wouldnt have to go round in circles and nag them to death every month. I think he must like the nagging!!! Sales via ebay and Amazon have dropped of a lot so he thinks its less of an issue but I still need the same reports and we have the same dance every time. Must admit I used to spend 80% of my time chasing but he is getting better with providing everything else without being asked.....just not these reports. Maybe one day! Well I can dream of perfection!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position