I am a self employed book-keeper and I have qualified to AAT level 2 in accounting, I started level 3 but just got too busy with the new business and felt at the time I needed to give more to the few clients that I had. Things have levelled off a bit now as the accounts are all under control and ticking along nicely so I am keen to do the next level qualification but I am not sure whether to go for IAB or ICB? I really enjoy book-keeping and I am not really interested in becoming a fully fledged accountant and dealing with historical figures and final accounts so I am looking at ICB or IAB instead of AAT. As I have AAT level 2 can I skip IAB/ICB level 2 and go straight to level 3? If so is one regarded better than the other? Would really appreciate any advice on which is the best route.
-- Edited by Chris1974 on Sunday 3rd of November 2013 08:33:28 PM
If you are self employed bookkeeper, and qualified to AAT level 2 you presumably are regulated for money laundering by HMRC? So you are not looking for a professional body for MLR?
You say you are not interest in final accounts but IAB/ICB level 3 are preparing final accounts, so i am not sure why you are looking at doing them? If you want to just do bookkeeping to TB your AAT level 2 covers everything you need. However, I am always an advocate for further study.
As for which one is better, this has been covered many times on this forum, but be aware that some of this discussion is dated. The IAB have been making great strides recently, and are now the BKN Institute of the year. We don't offer IAB courses so i am unbiased.
Its a difficult question as all of the professional bodies have merit.
The IAB would give you better access to accountants where even if you are not looking to join their ranks such is a good source of book-keeping work.
That said ICB also have networking events but they tend to be bookkeepers talking to bookkeepers.
You are not going to get much by way of exemptions for AAT level II from either ICB or IAB.
With the ICB the qualification will need to have been gained within two years for it to be considered for exemptions.
Exemptions with ICB are more expensive taking the form for guaranteed passes (similar to the ACCA approach) so you basically pay for the exams and membership and a practice certificate.
You would need to talk to the ICB about what exemptions that they are willing to give for level II.
With the IAB its £25 to review your qualifications so much cheaper. Then add membership and practice certificate.
Again though AAT level II is not going to get you to MIAB which I believe to be the level that you need to attain to gain a practice certificate.
Personally I would say that AAT level III really gives you some excellent skills to move forwards whether or not you decide to move to IAB or ICB later.
Have you considered doing AAT level III and then using that to gain MIAB status?
On the latter question in relation to is IAB or ICB the better regarded...
IAB is older and has qualifications recognised by the other professional bodies.
ICB is younger and more dynamic (it was born out of the IAB by a breakaway manager), although such dynamism has resulted in geurilla marketing campaigns that are a little like marmite. The ICB qualifications are not recognised particularly well by other professional bodies but from a client perspective as they generally have no idea the difference between a bookkeeper and an accountant and even less idea about the hierarchy of qualifcations such matters little.
If it were me though I would actually continue with AAT as it is recognised by accountants and accountants are a great source of bookkeeping work.
If you are determined not to go down that route then I would choose IAB next, again down to networking opportunities with accountants (IFA ones).
Plus, whilst I am sure that at the moment you are adamant that accounting has no interest for you as a self employed bookkeeper you will find that more and more work does not stop at trial balance so in future you may decide that you need AAT. In such instance an IAB qualification would gain you exemptions from some AAT papers.
There are no definitive answers above and its just my views intended to get the ball rolling.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
think that we've had a few similar conversations on the site but that links a good call.
All the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
AIAB Members can practice if they apply for a certificate of compliance (In practice for less than 3 years) or Practice certificate.
The IAB realised some time ago, that AIAB members were registering with the HMRC for ML, in order to practice. But if registered with HMRC for ML, it would not be valid, because they were also a member of a regulated professional body. This will be a surprise to a lot of people (!) HMRC take your money, but if you a client is caught ML and you are arrested for not reporting them/or implicated as an accessory, HMRC will not support you as you are a member of a professional body. But your professional body also will not support you because you are not registered with them for ML!
For this reason it was agreed that AIAB members have to regulated by the IAB not HMRC for ML and as long as they follow the IAB regulations for members in practice they can apply.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 8th of November 2013 12:23:31 PM
The subject came up at a meeting with the HMRC and the Professional bodies at one of the official meetings that happened a couple of years ago, and HMRC admitted that this would happen to anyone a member (not a student), of a professional body.
Affliate is still a member, just the lowest grade of membership of a professional body in the case of the IAB.
From what you say about the ACCA member working self-employed - pre-practice certificate - they are "under supervision" or working to T/b and I presume not publicly using their membership of a professional body? Therefore if something went wrong, the professional body would have nothing to do with it as HMRC could not claim they should be regulated them the professional body?
AIAB members of the IAB, are permitted to use the letters after their name in public, and therefore have to be regulated by the IAB not the HMRC.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 8th of November 2013 12:44:58 PM
Not sure thats actually true Frauke in that ACCA tell members pre practice certificate who are working only to trial balance or working self employed under supervision that they must sign up with HMRC for MLR because the ACCA will not cover them until they have a practice certificate.
Is the key not that the person is a praticing member of a regulated body then they must be regulated by that body rather than the person only being a student or affiliate not yet able to gain a practicing certificate through their own body?
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
With the ACCA an affiliate is basically still a student but without any more exams to take.
That would be why so many who have passed their exams and have their experience already signed off defer transferring to membership... I can see people making the mistake of upgrading and falling foul of that one as it looks as though there's a pre practice certificate no mans land where neither ACCA or HMRC would cover you for MLR... That said, personally I'm covered as my MLR's through the IFA so believe that I should be ok.
And with that I've just seen another excellent reason for IFA membership
All the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
And with that I've just seen another excellent reason for IFA membership
All the best,
Shaun.
Right, i have been thinking (and occasionaly mentioning) for a while now that the IFA are going places. I have no facts to back this up, other than the fact they are OFQUAL accredited and now, a member of IFAC.
From a Premier point of view I have been thinking about offering courses in this. However, am i correct (and i don't mean this in a disparaging way) but the IFA is where students/members of other bodies "end up" rather than aim for? In which case there is not little demand for specific IFA training. There doesn't seem to a list of training providers on their website.
Or am i completely wrong here about my opinion of the IFA? Are there any other IFA members here other than Shaun?
Sorry if i am taking this off topic.
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
every winner of the BKN bookkeeper of the year award so far has been IFA.
Even if you look around this site you will find lots of members as its the natural progression from IAB plus its a sound body for members of other bodies where they are having difficulty meeting the criteria of obtaining a practicing certificate through their own bodies.
However, I fear that despite being a sound professional body for now at least you may have hit the nail on the head in that in many ways its considered a qualification of convenience.
Certainly that it attracts so many members from higher bodies is a very good thing for IFA which will move it up to the next level, just not yet I fear.
I think that for Premier a better pairing for AAT would be the ATT qualification which is relly an add on qualification so could also be sold as CPD for members of other bodies and as that includes gaining additional letters it could be considered cost effective CPD.
Also what about offering Quickbooks courses? There certainly seems the interest after the Intuit roadshows from the last couple of years. If you're interested I can give you Alisons number (She our main UK contact for Intuit).... Might take a bit of digging to find as can't remember which of my email addresses that she sent it to.
As an outfield suggestion what about VT courses? There are certainly plenty of members on here who use it plus VT+ beat Intuit and Sage in this years Aweb software satisfaction survey and VT Accounts won the accounts production category ahead of the likes of IRIS.
Of all of the above I personally would give the most serious consideration to ATT.
HTH,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I think that for Premier a better pairing for AAT would be the ATT qualification which is relly an add on qualification so could also be sold as CPD for members of other bodies and as that includes gaining additional letters it could be considered cost effective CPD.
Also what about offering Quickbooks courses? There certainly seems the interest after the Intuit roadshows from the last couple of years. If you're interested I can give you Alisons number (She our main UK contact for Intuit).... Might take a bit of digging to find as can't remember which of my email addresses that she sent it to.
As an outfield suggestion what about VT courses? There are certainly plenty of members on here who use it plus VT+ beat Intuit and Sage in this years Aweb software satisfaction survey and VT Accounts won the accounts production category ahead of the likes of IRIS.
Of all of the above I personally would give the most serious consideration to ATT.
HTH,
Shaun.
Hi Shaun,
As regards ATT, this is a project that I have been working on at Premier for a bit now, and it is going to launch in January ( I am trying to not make this a plug). It is a really good qualification. The only reservation I did have was the numbers, they only have 7,400 members. However, I believe in it, so (hopefully) we will bring that figure up.
As for Quickbooks, this is one that we have been looking at. I still cant agree with people learning on Sage then finding out that it isnt financially viable for the small bookkeeper/accountant. I have actually made contact with Alison Ball but she has moved back to the USA recently.
As for VT, I have never come across this personally i have noted that a lot of people use it, and it does fit a lot better with the small firm, but again it depends on numbers as to if this is financially viable.
Thanks
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
I have my practice certificate with the IFA. Also I have been providing Accountants certification for mortgages for clients for years as most lenders now accept AFA or FFA as an acceptable accountants qualification. (Verbally they say "chartered", but when the paperwork arrives with the list of acceptable qualifications, AFA & FFA is usually there).
Most IFA students currently study through BPP or find their own material.
I too prefer VT, and if I had the time would offer computerised book-keeping courses using it. But I don't have enough tutors who can teach it, so don't yet.
However, I fear that despite being a sound professional body for now at least you may have hit the nail on the head in that in many ways its considered a qualification of convenience.
I have been thinking about this all day. Maybe rather than just being a qualification of convenience, the IFA is the professional body that the market needs. The market just isnt aware of this yet?
You have ACCA who have regulation 8, and then you need all the expereice to get a practice licence.
ICAEW, even though they are the body that i get the privilige of paying £320 to every year, have their own problems. They arent to bad as regards practicing whilst studying, i was fine operating under the AAT banner as long i didnt mention ICAEW and the rules foir getting a practice licence arent too bad. But it is a real struggle to even get the privilige to start to study it. This is surely restricting opportunities for loads of people with potential, who working for an approved training practice isnt really feasible for.
Then their is CIMA who just seem to do their own thing.
Maybe in a few years IFA will be the body of choice for the small to medium size firm. I cant see the large auditors jumping ship anytime soon.
Which if so, will the IAB ride along on their coat tails due to their close proximity? (No insult meant to the IAB, the link is/could be a massive benefit to them and their members).
Also Frauke, If the only options are BPP or self study, maybe their is opportunity for Premier. I am pretty sure the way we developed the last few years we can compete with the like of Kaplan and BPP
Anyway these are only Friday night thoughts.
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
Just to say this thread has been so informative, it is refreshing to have such information accessible through a forum.
I am AAT level II and am very confident with my book-keeping up to TB. I take note that more and more book-keepers are often required to go beyond TB as client demands are on the increase.
I will be progressing onto AAT III but for the sake of practicing, I was looking to progress onto the IAB as an Associate (granted by exemption) taking the relevant steps to be a Member and obtain their 'Certificate of Compliance'.
Is it better to register with HMRC for ML regulations as AAT II or progress with IAB so that they are my supervisory body.
don't be sorry, the more the merrier. Hope that you enjoy posting here (and appologies in advance for my spelling. I'm dyslexic and this is the one place where there is no auto spell checker (and I write to much to be cutting and pasting back and forth to word)).
with registering directly with HMRC for ML you are very much taking the go it alone route as the AAT will allow you to practice pre MAAT (previded you stay within their rules of only doing work that you are experienced or qualified to do and make absolutely no reference at all to any affiliation to them).
With IAB you are more part of the family so will have the support of the professional body if you needed advice or legal support.
That said, I'm sure that more advice is sought here than from our professional bodies. So really its a matter of what can having the extra letters do for you?
Well, for starters you would have some letters showing that you are qualified where, as mentioned above you could not use your AAT letters anywhere.
Clients tend to have no idea which body does what but they generally seem to recognise that there is something there on the business card after your name until you are MAAT and then you have some burning hoops to jump through to get to a practice certificate.
Another good thing about the IAB is that if you wanted to move to accountancy or a tax specialisation they are an excellent stepping stone to IFA and / or FTA. As there is a very incestuous relationship between the IAB and those organisations even though they now no longer share the same management.
IAB do not tend to have seperate meetings for bookkeepers and accountants but rather the IFA meetings are joint IAB/IFA affairs giving you direct access to accountants and potential subcontracting of work (although as with any other form of networking there is no guarantee of finding work that way).
To my mind that is an excellent selling point for both organisations as it give accountants access to bookkeepers that they know (rather than just the letters that keep arriving asking for work) and for bookkeepers it gives you access to accountants who might otherwise not acknowledge you.
Think of their meetings very much like this site where people of all level come together as equals but just add drinks to that.
Hope that helps,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thank you for your response. After some more reading and researching I am most definitely going to go with the IAB (they are very easy to speak to over the phone).
Even the letters AIAB would be really useful for business card and also recognition purposes.
I will set myself up with them at the beginning of June this year.
I most definitely take your point about the AAT. Their study process is very good but they only start allowing you to use any letters at MAAT (level 4!) which is a bit testing as the Level 3 works are in depth enough to be practicing as a Book-keeper, providing the person has no difficulty with the content.
Chan
(again what a fantastic space to gain knowledge of everything a anything)
I can see the AAT's point as they do not want to confuse the general public by there being multiple levels of AAT person able to do different things.
But, they are realistic and know that you have the skills so allow you to practice under someone elses banner in order to support your studies.
Most of the accountancy bodies allow that (CIMA, ACCA, etc) and similarly do not allow you to use the letters until you have a practice certificate through them (Note that ACCA is very, very restrictive over what it allows you to do but you can still work as a bookkeeper (everything to trial balance)).
I think that you've got a sound plan.
Study AAT building your knowledge base as you go.
Practice under the IAB flag making some income and gaining contacts. (With IAB you will get to know IFA accountants who will be able to sign off your AAT experience. The joint IAB/IFA meetings didn't happen by accident!).
When you reach MAAT using your contacts to swap out to an AAT practice certificate with the experience and contacts to back up your application.
End of the journey you are a practicing accountant coming from being an experienced bookkeeper able to offer a full service to SME clients.
To my mind thats a very good way to reach that ultimate goal.
... Wonder if the IAB are going to offer me a job now, lol.
Hope that you have a good day Chan,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
