Passed Level 1 (after a long break). Plan to pass Level 2 in the next 8 - 10 weeks.
I'm just looking for a bit of advice / suggestions about where to go after that......
My situation in brief -
Goal: Set up own bookkeeping and accountancy practice.
Brief background: I'm a mid-life career changer from working in local authority policy to accountancy. Managed to move into my current role as a sort of Accounts Clerk in a Local Authority, a couple of years ago.
Now I'm a bit overwhelmed with the options, to be honest:
Once AICB qualified I could set up on my own just doing work up to trial balance, (not decided how to make the jump into self employment, though), or set up on my own but also keep studying until I'm MICB qualified (is it worth it?) or how about AICB + going for the IFA qualification?
There are probably lots of options I've not thought of, or ignored through my own lack of knowledge. I suppose my fear is that AICB is too limiting and its not sufficient to build a robust business on.
Any advice would be appreciated.
-- Edited by Ray2000 on Tuesday 19th of November 2013 06:23:32 PM
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.................just an ICB student, at the moment.
If you want to go self employed and I see you mention bookkeeping AND accountancy I would seriously suggest studying for ATT (Association of Taxation Technicians). Your clients largely won't care that you can put a good set of accounts together, they just expect that you can but they do care about how much tax they are paying and will ask questions on that subject well before discussing the pros and cons of straight line depreciation as opposed to reducing balance (God help us if they ever mention 'sum of the digits'!). As someone who has neither a bookkeeping nor an accountancy qualification but who has ATT I would recommend that route as much for the sake of expediency as anything else. Sure if you have a few years then AAT or even ACCA may be of interest (practising certificates aside).
Hi, Thanks for suggesting ATT - never even thought of tax.
There is a requirement on the ATT website that I need to work in Taxation for two years before I can become ATT qualified. As it seems unlikely that I will get employment in taxation is it still worth getting this qualification?
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.................just an ICB student, at the moment.
I know where you are coming from, but the opportunity is there for the student and they are given excellent support, both from the ICB and from the network of Members groups, which are ever increasing. As ever the information provided re other qualifications is excellent, but Ray should be aware that, for example, if he studies AAT that they prevent him from working on his own until he has gained a level of experience. This may be the type of obstacle that Ray may wish to avoid. There is nothing to stop Ray completing his ICB qualification and then, say, move onto AAT where there are no exemption routes and the entry level is decided between student and learning centre (one of our MICB students recently entered at Level IV). Of course, as many students find, once they have completed their ICB study, this qualification provides more than enough coverage for successful operation as a bookkeeper, although CPD in other areas would be beneficial.
Sorry, Shaun, I see that you had mentioned restrictions and AAT entry test. Note to self....read entire sentences
-- Edited by Brian McVean on Wednesday 20th of November 2013 01:19:53 PM
You are actually underestimating what work you can carry out as an ICB Member. With your Associate Membership you can actually complete sets of final accounts for sole traders and take accounts for Partnerships, Ltd Co's and Not for Profit Organisations to Trial Balance. If you continue on to Full Membership you can then complete final accounts for these organisations, although you are advised to have an accountant sign off accounts for Limited Companies. There are also study options for Payroll Management and Self Assessment Taxation. If your aim is to offer a full bookkeeping and accounting service on a self-employed basis, in my own humble opinion, the continuation of your ICB study would be your best option.
reading what someone can do after taking three short form exams it makes one wonder why its takes five to ten years to become an accountant really doesn't it (lol).
Hi Ray,
To be honest, for clients only really interested in compliance and who look at ourselves as a necessary overhead rather than adding value to their businesses then I think that Rob hits the nail on the head in that tax is the area that you really have to concentrate on.
I mean, if you go to a dinner party and the others cotton on to you being an accountant the conversation goes one of two ways. Either the "I was never good at maths at school" conversation or "So, how do I pay less tax?".
As an alternative to ATT (which is absolutely the preferable option of accessible tax qualification (CTA has very restrictive entry requirements) there is also FTA which is the IFA's tax arm.
Of course, whilst tax will be the service that sells its an add on rather than a stand alone.
Personally I feel that anyone looking to offer accountancy services should at a minimum be looking at AAT which will give the knowledge base that you need combined with credence with accountants at networking events.
ACCA is better but the restrictions placed on one by regulation 8 puts you in the position that one is allowed to do more with the first three ICB papers than even being an ACCA associate with the last five papers being at a Masters in Accounting level... Go figure!
You have only passed ICB level I so no major investment yet. Think long and hard about whether it feels like the right qualification for you and your needs. I'm not saying that it isn't, I'm just saying that the investment in time and money to date is a spit in the ocean compared to what follows so if you were to change now is the time to do it.
There's not much by way of exemptions using ICB qualifications but the knowledge base should get you through the AAT skills test if you wanted to progress that way or you could progress up ICB and then swap MICB to IAB to move up to IFA and then continue taking those exams if you wanted an accountancy qualification.
Basically lots of options and it all comes down to which way that you personally (not anyone else) want to go? Which professional bodies mean what to you? Which one do you think will put you in the best position to handle clients needs? Which one will command respect from accountants as well as clients?
You are in a secure job in no rush to move. You could support a longer term study program (AAT would take a couple of years although it can be done quicker).
The letters that you earn will cost you a lot of time and money so make sure that they are the right one's for your needs... Not just for now but for the forseeable future.
Good luck with whichever road you take,
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
There is one problem that keeps coming up in the answers above, though.
All professional bodies (except the ICB) require 2 years documented experience working as a trainee for someone else before you can obtain the qualification.
With these positions being hard to get, and paid little over minimum wage, what would you recommend?
Ray
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.................just an ICB student, at the moment.
Ultimately the choice is yours, but if your main goal if self employment then stick with the ICB route. If you get qualified and you don't get many oportunities, then you would always have other routes available, with the AAT, for example.
Thought I would stick my two pence worth into the mix.
Obviously Ray if looking to study for Accountancy is going to take a lot longer than learning to become a Bookkeeper first, I speak to a lot of people who are in exactly the same position as your good self and the common consensus in they learn Bookkeeping first which can earn the learner some money while still studying for Accountancy, having friends or family that maybe run their own business is obviously an advantage as it is always good to have possible potential clients while studying.
There is funding available for new business start ups available but you will need to good business plan to apply. If you are going down the Self-Employment route then the ICB is the obvious route and you should perhaps study your Level 3 Manual and Computerised qualifications.
In essence you will have to decide which is the best route for you but at least you have plenty of options.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Dave
-- Edited by Dave Campbell on Thursday 21st of November 2013 11:47:19 AM
I do just have one point to add, you can work for yourself whilst you study the AAT qualification, you just cant mention AAT and you will have to find someone else (ICB or HMRC) to regulate you for money laundering.
The questions you need to ask yourself is:
Do i want exemptions from higher bodies ACCA/ACA/IFA?
Do I a qualification that is recognised by employers?
Do I want a qualification which is recognised by other accountants?
Do I want a qualification which is recognised by banks?
Not all qualifications tick all these boxes, but that doesnt mean that you should dismiss them. If you have absolutley no intention of doing ACCA , then the fact that ICB isnt recognised by ACCA should make no difference. etc
But like Shaun says, your letters take a lot of time, money and effort to get so you want as much from it as possible. But it isnt a case that one is always better than others as everyone has different requirements, not everyone will have any need for financial performance in the AAT but for others it is invaluable.
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
Whilst I would say that ICB is a route to consider its an interesting choice of words of such being the obvious route which seems a little like saying that is you want to be an accountant then the obvious route is ACCA yet there are many people out there running SME accountancy practices as MAAT MIPS.
If the final goal is accountancy would not the obvious choice right from the start be AAT which contains everything from the ICB syllabus plus moves up to more advanced accountancy study?
For sticking at bookkeeping with no intention to offer more advanced services then as you say that choice is a lot closer and at that level I think that there is little to differentiate between the level of study for many professional bodies and the differentiating factor is less the knoweldge and more about add ons such as networking opportunities and what can the letters do to help one find work and clients.
On the option of permanent work front I often find the best indicator of what a qualification can do for you is to type it into a job search on the Reed website and see what comes back.
For slf employment, the question has to be what local support network is there to help one's business find clients. For example, if your house is two mins walk from an IAB networking hub it would be silly to ignore that in a similar way to if one was in the perfect position to attend ICB meetings why would one go with the obvious alternative.
Sometimes it seems a little like buying a new car in that they all do pretty much the same thing but some have better features others have better reliability others have better presence. And just like a new car what is perfect for one person is totally the wrong option for another. lol, just remembered seeing a lil old granny driving around Harrogate just about able to see over the steering wheel of a brand new M3 Beemer as she pottered around at around 20mph (I suspect that she was also sat on a cussion))#1.
Think thats a good example of how sometimes what we buy can be totally wrong for our needs and how its what we need that has to be the driver for our purchases, be that a car or a professional body membership.
All in all I think that there is a lot to consider before making an informed choice of professional body and I think that this thread has done a good job of giving a pretty unbiased breakdown of the options without actually saying that any one is wrong or any one is right for everyone.
kind regards,
Shaun.
#1 M3's should be confiscated from people like that!... OMG, I'm turning into Jeremy Clarkson.... Why am I not seeing that as a bad thing!
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Based on the advice here I'm going to finish studying ICB Level 2. This opens doors for me rather than closes them.
AAT and ATT are great options but the two year work experience requirement for these qualifications seem like an insurmountable, barrier at the moment.
I think there are a lot of people out there, like me, who want to move into bookkeeping and accountancy mid way through their career. They are happy to start at the bottom again in terms of the work they would do, but are put off by the truly shocking low pay that new entrants to the industry have to put up with for what is quite responsible work even at relatively lower levels. So they see the ICB qualification and self employment as the only viable option.
Thanks again for all your advice
Ray
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.................just an ICB student, at the moment.
got a little heated but covers similar ground including practicing under the AAT banner pre qualification.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
