ICB Student - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Adam2003 · Veteran Member

ICB Student

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

About time, lol.

I know that you've been uming and arring about the ICB for at least a year so sure that you have considered all of the pro's and cons of your chosen path.

Good luck with passing your exams Adam. Sure that you'll be through them in no time.

All the best,

Shaun.

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Good Luck Adam and Happy New Year

Happy New Year Shaun.

Try and get as many qualifications as you can between now and the 1st April as the ICB syllabus will be changing from then, make use of the ICB online mock exams they are only £10 and great preparation before taking the real exam.

Dave

Training Link
ICB Training Provider of the Year 2012/13 and 2013/14

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Happy new year to you as well Dave. You got mentioned today in the Rosemary Bookkeeping thread. Its a fun read if you have a few mins to kill.

Ooh, syllabus changing.... What they doin, what they doin?????... Giz a pointer to the new syllabus... Are they dropping this idea that bookkeeping and accountancy are different things??? (Bit like saying that a house and its foundations are totally different things).

Is it like the AAT change where it got dumbed down a little after their changes (They seemed to drop half of the financial reporting standards from level IV) or are they making it harder to stop slow the flow of new bookkeepers?

C'mon, spill the beans matey. I'll be nice... Honest (lol, my history of reactions to such matters may be against you believing that!).

Right, pretend I'm not reading this and just slip the link to the new syllabus below... wink

Just there ... go on, you know that you want to...

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
Happy new year to you as well Dave. You got mentioned today in the Rosemary Bookkeeping thread. Its a fun read if you have a few mins to kill.

Ooh, syllabus changing.... What they doin, what they doin?????... Giz a pointer to the new syllabus... Are they dropping this idea that bookkeeping and accountancy are different things??? (Bit like saying that a house and its foundations are totally different things).

Is it like the AAT change where it got dumbed down a little after their changes (They seemed to drop half of the financial reporting standards from level IV) or are they making it harder to stop slow the flow of new bookkeepers?

C'mon, spill the beans matey. I'll be nice... Honest (lol, my history of reactions to such matters may be against you believing that!).

Right, pretend I'm not reading this and just slip the link to the new syllabus below...

Just there ... go on, you know that you want to...

Lol Shaun and Im changing my name to Asif lol

I think the changes will be looked upon favourably, The AICB status as it stands today allows Bookkeeping services to be provided with level 2 qualifications, from 1st April this will be changing and students will require Level 3 qualifications to be able to provide Bookkeeping services on a Self-Employed basis, the Level 1 Manual as it stands now will become defunct. This is how I understand it anyway.

Im more interested in the Rosemary thread, can you point me in the right direction?

I am having a bit of a do on Saturday night, if your free let me know as you would be more than welcome.

Dave

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Dave,

its this thread : www.book-keepers.org.uk/t56192487/rosemary-franchise-opportunity/

the post is mine at 10:06 but its more fun to read it from the top... Best laugh we've had on the site in ages. Currently its discussing hiding bodies in beauty spots in a twist on the hide the Easter egg game.

Sorry, can't make your do. January's not a good month but I'm fully intending to do a lot more networking later in the year... Might even borrow tims nose hat and ears to pop along to the ICB bash... Just remind me, they don't check you for Semtex on the way in do they? lol.

I think that moving it to level III is a good move (yep, I said that) but what happens about all of those people running businesses at level II at the moment?

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Lol I found it Shaun, did make me laugh,

The changes are for new students not members already in practice, ICB do like CPD for their current members but the new syllabus will not affect them unless upgrading their current membership status. I am still trying to get to grips with the changes myself but slowly getting there.

Be good to see you at one the ICB bashes and I know you would be welcomed, their good people Shaun and as I have said many a time ICB are always looking to move forward and not just sit on their awarding body laurels.

As for all the get out of Jail for free cards I can get, watch this space mate, by the end of 2014 I could end up being canonised, St Dave of Training Link. Mmmmmm its just a matter of time lol. The halo of a changed man lol.

I wont be making many posts this year, 2014 is going to be a busy one for me both personally and professionally, but rest assured I will be keeping my eye on you all lol.

Take care my friend
Dave

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I wouldn't get going for being a saint matey, don't they all get that job by being knocked off in particularly constructive and amusing ways that seem to be based on the home alone movies.

There's no way that you'll manage a whole year without posting a reply... At best I'll give you till awards season before your gnawing on the edge of your keyboard desperate to hit the submit button.

Right, off back to writing to a client who seems to think that they're going to contninue to get limitless advice and support without them first signing the engagement letter and standing order mandate....

Take care of you too matey,

all the best for 2014,

Shaun.

Adam2003 · Veteran Member

Shamus wrote:
About time, lol.

I know that you've been uming and arring about the ICB for at least a year so sure that you have considered all of the pro's and cons of your chosen path.

Good luck with passing your exams Adam. Sure that you'll be through them in no time.

All the best,

Shaun.

Thanks Shaun
I know I have taken my time, but a few personal things came up, which had taken priority.
But now my head is sorted and the problems are a thing of the past. And i think this is the right time.

I have been study towards the level 1 already and feel that I will be ready to sit that exam soon

Adam

Adam2003 · Veteran Member

I have also been reading the rosemary franchise post, and it has made me laugh

adam

Adam2003 · Veteran Member

Dave Campbell wrote:
Good Luck Adam and Happy New Year

Happy New Year Shaun.

Try and get as many qualifications as you can between now and the 1st April as the ICB syllabus will be changing from then, make use of the ICB online mock exams they are only £10 and great preparation before taking the real exam.

Dave

Training Link
ICB Training Provider of the Year 2012/13 and 2013/14

Thankyou Dave.

I am aiming to have get to Level 1 and 2 in Manual Bookkeping and the level 2 in computerised bookkeeping done as soon as possible.
When i have them done, i think i will start to think of a training provider.

Training Link has jumped out to me as one of the possibilities, but lets see what the next few months brings.

Adam

ICBUK · Guru

Shaun there is no need to talk about wearing disguises and taking explosives to ICB meetings.

Adam welcome to the ICB! Best of luck with your studies!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

ICBUK wrote:
Shaun there is no need to talk about wearing disguises and taking explosives to ICB meetings.

Chill out James, get into the flow of the thread. It was a joke said in good humour based on peoples erronious preconceptions about my stance on the ICB... And anyway, I much prefer an AK47 to Semtex.

lol, have you seen the film Jackie Brown where Samuel L Jackson and Robert DeNero are on the sofa watching a DVD of girls in bikini's firing guns. They go through a few guns then get to the AK47 to which Mr Jackson comes out with the immortal line "when you positively, absolutely gotta kill every mother f**ker in the room, accept no substitute".

Anyway, from reading the above posts I reccon that issues discussed in my previous posts have had an effect (even if subconsciously) in that this change which will stem the number of new bookkeepers hitting the streets and improve the knoweldge base of those that do. From the limited information I've seen so far I think that you've made a good move here and my only concern was for those in practice already which Dave says is something that has already been considered.

Right, it's a new year, it seems that you've made a good move with your qualification which gets the ICB brownie points so lets all play nice and have a laugh occassionally otherwise whats the point.

Shaun.

Adam2003 · Veteran Member

ICBUK wrote:
Shaun there is no need to talk about wearing disguises and taking explosives to ICB meetings.

Adam welcome to the ICB! Best of luck with your studies!

Thankyou James

ICBUK · Guru

Shamus wrote:
Chill out James

Oh go on then, it is a Friday I might even smile biggrin

Yes I think the new syllabus is a great move, you know I have been one of the voices in ICB pushing in this direction for a few years now.

Have a good weekend all.

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi James,

From what i have seen it does look good. Is the move to matching the National Occupational Standards in anticipation of OFQUAL accreditation?

have a good weekend.

Nick

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Nick,

OfQual never had any problem with ICB becoming an awarding body, even with the syllabus, so this change wont affect ICB's decision to join or not join.

This is more of a move that basically just makes sense :)

Over the years the ICB has added bits to its syllabus and moved subjects between the levels, and it is now at a stage where the levels don't quite match the national standards.

This makes it harder for people joining the ICB via other qualifications, for example AAT Level 2+3 only gets ICB Level 2 exemptions. This also makes it harder for the training providers who get calls from part qualified AAT or City and Guilds etc. and have a difficult job in working out how that matches to ICB and where they should start in the course.

ICB receives a lot of enquiries from potential members with other qualifications, mostly because ICB is not in local colleges, and so this will make the joining process much easier.

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi James,

I agree that it does make sense and it makes it far easier for students moving to and from the ICB, and this is an excellent move.

I thought the ICB decided where the student should start, not the training providers? To be honest, i think the ICB have this right, unlike the AAT. As this stops (some) training providers starting a student on a level, that they are not ready for, just becuase they want to make a sale and the student insists.

If the qualification matches the NOS, what have the ICB got to lose from going OFQUAL?

Hope everything's going well done in ICB towers.

Nick

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

NickCraggs wrote:
what have the ICB got to lose from going OFQUAL?

Lets not forget SQA as well, the country doesn't stop at Carlisle. Not yet anyway

Though I think we have much higher standards.

Kris

NickCraggs · Guru

kjmcculloch83 wrote:
Lets not forget SQA as well, the country doesn't stop at Carlisle. Not yet anyway

Ha ha ha, I like that Kris!

I dont understand the OFQUAL politics but isnt SQA, a bit like Scottish Parliament to Westminster. In the fact that they can choose what they want to do to some degree but they dont have complete autonomy? I may be very wide of the mark though, so i stand to be corrected.

James probably knows better than me as i think the ICB have had dealings with SQA aswell as OFQUAL.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Education is a devolved matter, but I think it's only recently that the way it has been approached is a bit different. I suppose it makes sense that they are braodly similar making it easy to compare levels. For example level 8 on the SQFL is broadly similar to level 5 on the OFQUAL framework.

This shows a bit more: www.scqf.org.uk/content/files/resources/Qualifications_can_cross_boundaries_leaflet_-_July_09.pdf

Kris

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

NickCraggs wrote:
a bit like Scottish Parliament to Westminster. In the fact that they can choose what they want to do to some degree but they dont have complete autonomy?

Also, I don't know whether you are baiting me and trying to get my blood pressure up, so I've just glossed over this bit

Kris

NickCraggs · Guru

HI Kris,

I said to Neil, i think this one is going to land me in hot water, but i couldn't think of any other analogies so i decided to (rather unwisely) go with one i know very little about!

Spamkebab · Expert

I'm having **** all to do with this.

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Nick,

Yes ICB will still decide where the student starts, but currently it is complicated to guess so the potential student needs to put in an application to ICB and wait. With the new system it should be more straight forward, so the training provider can give advice and even start the course on the basis that the student hasn't lied/been mistaken and the provider follows ICB recommendations/rules.

Hopefully the ICB will have an exemptions table on their site to make it even easier.

OfQual wouldn't really take anything away, but it wouldn't really give much either. It would cause a large jump in fees though, and as most of ICB's students are private this wouldn't be very good.

SQA is possible but again it is about weighing up what you gain to the extra work. SQA require different qualification names, the levels would be different etc.

So you would have 2 students doing the same course and examinations, but from Scotland would get an ICB Level 5 and students from everywhere else would get an ICB Level 2. confuse

ICBUK · Guru

Hi

I started my post and then got called into a meeting, so missed the bit about Scottish Parliament etc.

I think SQL is pretty independent, certainly from what I have been told regarding funding and even the rules with using their logo on certificates sent overseas.

NickCraggs · Guru

ICBUK wrote:

OfQual wouldn't really take anything away, but it wouldn't really give much either. It would cause a large jump in fees though, and as most of ICB's students are private this wouldn't be very good.

Hi James,

Whilst I commend the ICB wanting to keep fees down for member and students, but surely OFQUAL would mean that students who cant afford a private training provider can get funding for a course. I am an advocate for education for all and the ICB is restricting itself to members who can afford to pay for the course themselves.

It also would further enhance the ICB's standing with other awarding bodies. Although i dont think that employers really care, about OFQUAL.

There must be something in it as the AAT and IAB are keen to go the OFQUAL route.

Nick

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Nick,

Over a certain age it is hard for the student to get funding. I think that age is 24 but I could be wrong.

ICB sees itself as primarily a membership body, so accepts that students may study other qualifications and then join ICB afterwards, and seems pretty happy with that.

There are local colleges who work with ICB even though they could get funding through OfQual because they prefer ICB's setup, or most of their students can't get funding because of age anyway.

Regarding the funding, last year some (possibly most) of IAB's qualifications (11 in total) had their funding removed because they registered less than 100 students during 2012 (source: Skills Funding Agency).

So there is still the AAT market, those wanting to become accountants, but that isn't really ICB's cup of tea, although I have noticed it is a growing trend within ICB.

I personally have friends who have no intention of becoming a bookkeeper or accountant but have done an AAT course because their bank recommended a local college course when they setup a business. So ICB could gain from that, would that be enough to replace ICB's current market? Unsure, I guess also the reduction in students becoming members needs to be taken into account. ICB is working with the Start Up Loans and this has proven a huge success, so there may be potential.

There is also a lot of hidden admin involved with OfQual regarding internal 'paper walls' not letting the membership side interfere with the qualifications. That kind of contradicts ICB's purpose where the membership feeds back to the qualification, but it is all a grey area.

Can't say for sure but while OfQual hasn't been forgotten about, I don't think it is a priority at the moment.

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi James,

Thanks for your answer, i thought it was a really good reply.

I didnt know that about the IAB to be honest.

All the best

Nick