if I could come at this from a different angle to Nick.
(I include the desciptions in the following for the non ACCA people who read this).
I would say that if you did P6 (advanced taxation) recently then it would make ATT mute.
However, personally I did P5 (advanced performance management) and P7 (advanced audit) with the intention of saving ATT for CPD.
If you did do P6 and really enjoyed it then perhaps advancing to CTA is a better move.
The reason that I have done things the way that I have is that tax is such a huge subject but at P6 the questions can relate to any remote aspect of it where ATT is modulerised so comes in more managable chunks.
I know that all ACCA papers at the higher level are difficult but I found the breadth covered by P6 to be too wide in scope for a single paper and ATT neatly fills the gap.
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. I've not started ATT yet, the above is simply me planning out everything in advance.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
My understanding from talking to people who have done both is that the ATT go into tax in a more detailed way than ACCA. I did ATT and it was pretty tough, a good friend of mine who is CTA qualified, said CTA was the hardest exams he ever did and he always knew his stuff!
Thanks everyone. Brilliant thread on accountingweb. I did the ACCA tax paper years ago and I am very rusty as I have never worked in practice. I was going to buy the F6 text book and refresh my knowledge but don't think that will be good enough for starting out in practice. I am also behind on CPD so I might as well do the course.
I think that its a swings and rondabout rob in that with the ATT papers you know what your getting when you go in the hall where the ACCA ones can ask about any aspect of tax and frequently mix and match scenarios which will include inheretence, overseas aspects, corporate, personal, VAT schemes and investments within a single scenario based question where I think that ATT are a little kinder to their people.
I'm not saying that ATT is easier but I think that seperating tax down into its component parts makes it more managable as you know more or less what aspects of tax are going to be tested when you go in the hall.
With ATT are they open or closed book exams?
ACCA papers allow no other materials in the hall. ICAEW ones allow you to take books in with you.
If you fancy having a glance at ACCA questions and answers for tax questions here's a link :
The answers haven't been released for the December sitting yet but for June both questions and answers are there.
I've not actually seen any ATT past papers so if after reading the first couple of questions from any recent sitting you think that ACCA is easier then I am happy to stand corrected.
Kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Hi Shaun, I think I passed my ATT in 1999, so I can't remember too much about the exams, I imagine they have probably got harder. From memory I think the only split was between personal and business tax. No doubt they are both very hard especially compared to Micky Mouse qualifications like IFA!!!
Neil and I have been through the books and discussed this quite a bit. We dont feel that it is loads more than AAT and certainly not more than ACCA.
With ATT you can take in approved books, like ICAEW.
I feel acronymed out now.
know the feeling Nick.
Yesterday I managed to get in ACCA, ATT, BPP and CPD withing a single sentence... Anyone not knowing this business must think that we're talking a different language.
I'm liking the taking in the approved books bit.
With some ACCA exams I'm fully behind their stance in that there is a lot that doesn't hurt to be ingrained knowledge. For tax though I think that an approved text should be allowed.... The Kaplan P6 one is A4 sized, smallish writing and best part of 6cm thick so if you didn't know it backwards, forwards and inside out you would never find what you were looking for.
When not facing clients the latest version is permanently open on my desk so open back in the exam is in that instance oretty close to reality.
Do you know whether one's copy of the books is allowed to be annotated Nick?
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
ICAEW let you take in an IFRS Standards Book, an Auditing Practices Book and a tax rate book in various exams. For the final three exams you can taken anything in. You cant really fail these.........
Well it is a bit more than AAT, but i dont think it is anywhere near P6 and what i did under ICAEW.
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
No doubt they are both very hard especially compared to Micky Mouse qualifications like IFA!!!
Hi Rob,
off topic I know but does anyone actually take IFA exams?
It seems that everyone that I know of who has gone down that path has done so via exemption in order to be able to practice where ACCA regulation 8 stops them from doing so (regardless of other qualifications or how much experience they come to the table with).
As for their exams I know that they don't do it now but they got in a load of trouble with the ACCA a few years back for plaigerism of an ACCA exam.
It ended up going to court and ws proven by a spelling mistake from the ACCA paper also being in the IFA one.
They're a far different organisation now and that was just an historical "did you hear the one about when...".
As for Mickey mouse, I know said tongue in cheek but have you noticed that every BKN bookkeeper of the year to date has been an IFA MIP?... I'm just full of fun facts today aren't I (Can't be anything to do with relief at getting almost 400 invoices plugged into my system... Now just need to reconcile them all).
Talk in a bit,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
off topic I know but does anyone actually take IFA exams?
I really like the IFA, but from Premier's point of view, i dont think that it is worth us doing as they do seem to be where ACCA's end up, rather the people set out to end up. There isnt even a list of training providers on the website. I think Frauke said BPP produce material for them, but that is all i have heard.
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
If its just the tax tables they are supplied in the P6 exam in a four page pull out (see any of the question papers my link above and you'll see what I mean).
My feeling is though that anyone who takes the time to look in the tables is doomed to failure as the exams are ridiculously time pressured to point where you feel that if your hand isn't constantly pushing pen you can just sense your marks evaporating.
Many thanks for the additional info on ATT.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I think that your right Nick although as perception of the brand improves on the back of the quality of people trading under its banner I suspect that may at some stage change to a qualification that people aspire to rather than simply end up at.
Well, either that or the ACCA will realise the damage that regulation 8 is doing to its market position on the back of other bodies stealing its members.
All very difficult to make decisions based on what-if's and maybe's so for now at least I think that Premier are wise to stand back and see how that market develops.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Nick, I don't seem to be able to find anything on Premier's website about ATT. I have been looking into starting ATT and the only Training Providers I'm finding are BPP, Tolleys & Kaplan. Are Premier going to be starting soon?
Thanks
Helen
I did the exams, although only once was there another person sat doing the exam at the same time as me.
I'm surprised more people don't do it, after all it's an accountancy qualification without the practice requirement barrier of the the chartereds, maybe it's because AAT are so well known as an alternative that very people realise the IFA even exists?
Between you and me i am already taking enrollments and i have a couple of students. But we havent got all the marketing material together and we haven had our big launch which should be next week, but as a course it is good to go. If you want to send me an email or give me a call, I can tell you a bit more about it.
Hi Michelle,
i can send you over a detailed syllabus if you like? What is you address?
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
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