I am new to the forum and looking for a bit of advice please. I am an ACCA member, 3 years post qualified but over 10 years accounting experience. I have previously done payroll (quite a few years ago), but also purchase ledger, sales ledger, nominal ledger, credit control, journals etc., management accounts with variance analysis and commentary. Did ICB and AAT along the way, so very comfortable with double entry bookkeeping.
I am considering working as a self-employed bookkeeper without a practicising certificate from ACCA. I would be grateful for the input of anyone out there working this way. Do you find that the rules regarding self employment are too restrictive to obtain and retain clients, or do you find you can manage to make a business by doing accounts up to TB stage and then getting an Accountant to do the final accounts and tax returns etc.,
I would be working from home. Have you found it difficult to build up clients or quite easy?
Regulation 8 is a nightmare which basically prevents you from going beyond trial balance regardless of whoever else you may be qualified with.
The only two ways to work within the remit of regulation 8 are either under the direct supervision of a suitably qualified accountant. Or, to only offer bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll.
The really annoying thing about the whole thing is that we spend years learning our stuff and we are allowed to do lesss than someone who has spent a few months getting to AICB.
Very frustrating and its driving me back towards the corporate side of the fence.
Good luck with getting your business off the ground,
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. there seems no ryme or reason to when and how clients turn up. I've run advertising campaigns and no responses. I've sat and done nothing and they've been banging my door down. I think that luck is as much a part of the whole process as the skills that we acquire.
Generally clients want a full service and are not happy to go to one person for the bookkeeping and another for the accounts / tax filing (when they go to a bookkeeper what they are really looking for is a cheaper accountant).
In frustration I also joined the IFA but could not bring myself to abandon my ACCA membership as its just too damn difficult to achieve to go giving it up because they make it so difficult to practice under them.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I totally share your frustration. I spent years getting this qualification and don't want to abandon it too quickly as I don't want to rule out going back to the corporate world again in a few years time when my kids are a bit older. It's so maddening that I know more than someone who decides to set themselves up in business and call themselves an accountant with no qualifications whatsoever and can do pretty much any work they feel like! Anyway, rant over.
In your experience, have you found it difficult to make the business work because of these regulations (you say you are considering going back to the corporate side of the fence). Have you also lost or not been able to obtain clients because you can't go past TB stage? How long have you been working for yourself?
Sorry for all the questions, but its great to find someone who is actually trying to work within Regulation 8 to discuss the practicalities with.
I'm good freinds with a local accountant and at times it has felt like my business is little more than the reception area for hers as I've had to pass her so many that do not want a two tier relationship with a financial professional.
Its a mutually beneficial relationship as I've done some bookkeeping work for her and also she's supervised me in the past but putting all of your eggs in one basket exposes you. What if I fell out with her (its happened in the past), she could just pull the plug on my supervision and then what would my clients do? At best all that we could do in that situation would be to sell on our stable.
I think that really supervision only works where one is an employee of the practice.
So, basically yes, I've found it very difficult to work within the remit of regulation 8.
I've been working for myself since 1990 but as a bookkeeper only since 2008 and its still a case that more of my income since 08 has come from consultancy than the bookkeping and accounts side of the fence.
we had a poster on the site a couple of weeks back who stated that their bookkeeping qualification gave them "the right" to prepare accounts and tax returns. My frustration in that thread was tangible. It wasn't the posters fault but the real issue out there is that the bookkeeping bodies have cottoned onto the fact that there are not enough clients who require a bookkeeping only service for the number that they are giving a practicing certificate to, so they are needing to move away from pushing their qualifications as bookkeeping only and offer an accounting service with bookkeeping bolted on.
There used to be a poster on the site (Bob Harper) who predicted that bookkeeping was dead. The way that he did it was not great and caused a lot of confrontation where his underlying message was not actually that wrong.
What hope then do the likes of ourselves have when the bookkeeping qualifications basically only stop at Plc's!
You would think that the CCAB bodies would do something to protect their members such as enshrining the role of the accountant in statute.
The ICB are attempting to get the term bookkeeper protected which to my mind will backfire big time as by definition the work of a bookkeeper stops at trial balance therefore if they are successful in their efforts it would not be to their members benefit as I would say that the bulk now offer services well beyond trial balance.
All in all its not a level playing field out there, but... the flip side is that the bookkeeping qualifications are not generally getting past agents for permanent positions so on the employed side of the fence it still remains as AAT and up and if you can get suitable employment then you can get a practice certificate.
From what you write though I'm thinking that you are suffering the same issues as myself (In my case its single parenting with sole custody and he's now too old for child minders) so permanent employment isn't really an option at the moment.
Hope that tthese replies are helping rather than causing you more grief!
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Just want to say you are not alone in the ACCA frustration. I am currently considering networking with accountants and hope I can get some sub-contract work from them. I have also toyed with jumping ship as not getting much from my subscription. I am sure there some businesses out there that need help with their bookkeeping.
Wonder if there is a loop hole around regulation 8. For example, get a unqualified friend to set up a limited company as a director, set up for money laundering with HMRC, get insurance and register with data protection and then employ you as a member of staff.
Already asked them something similar when I was offered a position with a small practice where the primary accountand was QBE.
I'm afraid that you would not be allowed to work for an unqualified accountant.
Also of course you would not be able to work for a business that you were able to influence either through share ownership or by being the only qualified person in a practice.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
ACCA rules take precedence over any other body that you are a member of.
So, whilst AAT could cover you for MLR the work that you would be able to offer directly to the public (rather than under supervision) would be restricted to bookeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll...
I'm not saying that its fair or that I agree with it. Its just whats written in regulation 8.
Sorry,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
But doesn't that sentiment go against one's funamental ethical principles... In fact, both ACCA Ethical standard one and IFAC Section 110.
Namely, we must act always with the utmost Integrity meaning that we must be honest and straightforward in all that we do both in our work and personal lives.
Of course, looking at things from a different angle regulation 8 is why there are so many great accountants working under the IFA banner!... Guess under which professional body many of them qualified!
-- Edited by Shamus on Tuesday 29th of April 2014 10:37:22 PM
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
if i hadnt applied for membership and was just an Affiliate would I of been ok? and then just transferred to IFA?
I wouldnt use ACCA anywhere and wouldnt even refer to myself as ACCA qualified and dont see why it is such a problem to them if you dont refer to ACCA in anyway. It wouldnt ruin their image.
When I started ACCA I did it with the sole intention that as soon as I qualified I would work for myself very annoyed
the not refering to the qualification anywhere works with AAT (up to but not including MAAT) and CIMA but not ACCA.
The rules are the same whether one is a student, affiliate or member and are applied very strictly.
The reasoning is clear in that there are a lot of practices out there who would suffer if the ACCA allowed newly qualifieds to practice in competition. Many practices will have invested a lot of time, effort and money in their staff so they want to at least get a couple of years post qualification work out of them.
Of course, the system only works where everyone is ACCA but not everyone is, so ACCA members in some ways suffer for pursuing the better qualification.
With myself I've got over five years signed off experience (plus a lot more than that not evidenced) but non of it counts towards my practice certificate for which I need to do a further three post qualification.
Whilst you could go to IFA or ever become an MAAT MIP, can you really walk away from a qualification that you will have sweated blood to achieve?
I know that I can't.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Anyone can prepare accounts if their professional body is not stopping them from doing that and QBE's don't have a professional body so there's no-one to stop them.
Also many bookkeepers are allowed by their professional bodies to prepare accounts even though the time frame from no knowledge to membership is very short and doesn't cover tax (properly) or ethics.
I didn't say that this was fair but it's how ACCA has (to my knowledge) always worked.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
