The Book-keepers Forum (BKF)

Post Info TOPIC: Converting Debt to Shares - VAT Liability


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 359
Date:
Converting Debt to Shares - VAT Liability
Permalink Closed


Hi,

 

I am hoping Les will jump in here and answer this one.

 

Company A is owed £x by Company B but instead of paying them they have converted the debt in to shares.

Does company A still have to pay the VAT over to HMRC?

The company operates it's VAT on a cash basis.

 

Elaine



__________________
E Roscoe


Expert

Status: Offline
Posts: 2256
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Elaine

I would say yes, as any transaction has to have a monitory value, whether it is an exchange, or contra.

Effectively the debt, is being paid by part ownership of an entity.

This is basically a contra transaction, where one transaction cancels the other, and as such is part of the VAT calculation.

There are two separate transactions taking place, which happen to have the same value, so no physical money changes hands.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/special-situations/samples.htm

This is a link to HMRC web page that gives a bit of detail on barter and contra transactions

EG goods £1000 (inc Vat) paid for by £1000 of shares

 

HTH

Bill

Edited to add last line

 



-- Edited by Wella on Saturday 14th of June 2014 02:36:51 PM

__________________

 

 



Expert

Status: Offline
Posts: 2021
Date:
Permalink Closed

I would say yes. What's happening here is - B is clearing its debt, but instead of passing the money over to A, it is accepting it back as payment for shares.

One assumes that B has had the use of the vatable goods and services and not returned them, and B could have claimed the VAT already if they are on standard basis. HMRC wouldnt be happy that one claimed, and the other didn't pay.


__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 292
Date:
Permalink Closed

I do agree with the previous posts. Payment in shares rather than cash is still consideration for the supply.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 359
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi All,

I am back on the subject of VAT due on conversion of shares to clear debt. The shareholder of a company has just told me that he believes the VAT is not due until the shares convert to cash. That is not due until the first quarter of next year.

The company who is offering shares is due to be listed on NASDAQ next year so I am told the shares will not convert to cash until then.

I need someone to clarify this as I have a VAT return to do by 7th September and need to know if this has to be included on the return or not.

Elaine

__________________
E Roscoe


Expert

Status: Offline
Posts: 2256
Date:
Permalink Closed

My understanding is that a supply has been made, and a consideration received therefore the VAT liability is due.

Consideration does not have to be in money.

If the outstanding account had been paid in goods, that would be deemed as payment (consideration) not when those goods were converted into cash by selling them. 

The same with the shares. They have been accepted as payment for the goods supplied not the cash they will (or not) generate at a later date

This is just my opinion. It might be worth contacting HMRC for clarification 



__________________

 

 



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 359
Date:
Permalink Closed



Thanks. That is the way that I read it. Cash doesn't necessarily mean physical cash it just means settlement.

I think I will contact HMRC so that I have peace of mind.

Don't want to get on the wrong side of them!



__________________
E Roscoe


Expert

Status: Offline
Posts: 2256
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Elaine

Just to satisfy my curiosity, have you had any feedback from HMRC on this question?

Bill



__________________

 

 

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
©2007-2024 The Book-keepers Forum (BKF). All Rights Reserved. The Book-keepers Forum (BKF) is a trading division of Bookcert Ltd. Registered in England Company Number 05782923. 2 Laurel House, 1 Station Rd, Worle, Weston-super-Mare, North Somerset, BS22 6AR, United Kingdom. The Book-keepers Forum and BKF are trademarks of Bookcert Ltd. This forum is a discussion forum only. There will usually be more than one opinion to any question and any posting should not be viewed as a definitive solution. No responsibility for loss occasioned to any person acting or refraining from action as a result of any posting on this site is accepted by the contributors or The Book-keepers Forum. In all cases, appropriate professional advice should be sought before making a decision. We reserve the right to remove any postings which are offensive, libellous, self-promoting or engaged in covert marketing. We will not notify users of removals. The views expressed in the forum posts are those of the individual and do not necessary reflect or agree with those of The Book-keepers Forum. Any offensive or unsuitable posts will be removed by the moderators. Any reader of this forum can request for a post to be looked into by sending an email to: bookcertltd@gmail.com.

Privacy & Cookie Policy  About